PR vs FPTP

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PR vs FPTP

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HKOwen Hong Kong 28 Jun 24 9.20pm
It's always interesting to see on here when people who normally have polar opposite views agree on something. I have come to the view that the only way to break the two party system in our country is to have a form of PR. It would mean all votes would count for something rather than democratic postcode lottery, Who on here is in favour of some kind of PR and doing away with FPTP? This was prompted by seeing the post from EDN , he and I usually differ but I agree with him on this Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.
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HKOwen

Hong Kong 28 Jun 24 9.20pm

It's always interesting to see on here when people who normally have polar opposite views agree on something.

I have come to the view that the only way to break the two party system in our country is to have a form of PR. It would mean all votes would count for something rather than democratic postcode lottery,

Who on here is in favour of some kind of PR and doing away with FPTP?

This was prompted by seeing the post from EDN , he and I usually differ but I agree with him on this

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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Vectis 28 Jun 24 9.40pm
Yes agree PR is only fair system. If polls are to be believed, Labour can expect a large majority in Parliament if they get 40% of the vote. So the majority of voters (60%) don’t want them but get them in total control. How can that be a fair and democratic outcome? Obviously the two main parties benefit from FPTP and so won’t allow it to change
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Vectis

28 Jun 24 9.40pm

Yes agree PR is only fair system. If polls are to be believed, Labour can expect a large majority in Parliament if they get 40% of the vote. So the majority of voters (60%) don’t want them but get them in total control. How can that be a fair and democratic outcome? Obviously the two main parties benefit from FPTP and so won’t allow it to change

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cryrst The garden of England 28 Jun 24 9.41pm
For the layman. What is the difference and how would the last election result be different as an example. Surely the most votes for one person or party in a certain area or city etc means they win. What does PR change apart from give us the USA with an overall party in charge who get the most votes nationally and individual parties in different states which over here are our councils or cities. The government still can’t intervene in the rules and regs.
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cryrst

The garden of England 28 Jun 24 9.41pm

For the layman. What is the difference and how would the last election result be different as an example. Surely the most votes for one person or party in a certain area or city etc means they win. What does PR change apart from give us the USA with an overall party in charge who get the most votes nationally and individual parties in different states which over here are our councils or cities. The government still can’t intervene in the rules and regs.

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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 28 Jun 24 10.44pm
Originally posted by cryrst For the layman. What is the difference and how would the last election result be different as an example. Surely the most votes for one person or party in a certain area or city etc means they win. What does PR change apart from give us the USA with an overall party in charge who get the most votes nationally and individual parties in different states which over here are our councils or cities. The government still can’t intervene in the rules and regs. There are a various systems of PR, all more complicated than our current system. The most likely one we would use is the single transferable vote. [Link] It’s impossible to extrapolate what would happen from any past election because we would vote differently, to elect a bunch of people from a much wider area. There would also be significant tactical voting to try to ensure people you don’t want to be returned, aren’t. Think Farage! The result would though a more accurate representation of views with major parties losing seats and minor ones gaining. The LibDems and the Greens would prosper. Coalitions would become usual. However, it’s not going to happen anytime soon. No big party will allow it on their watch., For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.
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Wisbech Eagle

Truro Cornwall 28 Jun 24 10.44pm

Originally posted by cryrst

There are a various systems of PR, all more complicated than our current system. The most likely one we would use is the single transferable vote.

[Link]

It’s impossible to extrapolate what would happen from any past election because we would vote differently, to elect a bunch of people from a much wider area. There would also be significant tactical voting to try to ensure people you don’t want to be returned, aren’t. Think Farage!

The result would though a more accurate representation of views with major parties losing seats and minor ones gaining. The LibDems and the Greens would prosper.

Coalitions would become usual.

However, it’s not going to happen anytime soon. No big party will allow it on their watch.,

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 28 Jun 24 10.51pm
Originally posted by cryrst For the layman. What is the difference and how would the last election result be different as an example. Surely the most votes for one person or party in a certain area or city etc means they win. What does PR change apart from give us the USA with an overall party in charge who get the most votes nationally and individual parties in different states which over here are our councils or cities. The government still can’t intervene in the rules and regs. If you are the 'layman' cryst I shall be the 'blindman', so this is only the blind leading the... lay? I am very much of the George Carlin persuasion in democracy being an illusion but I'd argue FPTP is the ultimate tool for this. We either vote for the red or blue team, all cut from the same cloth with no real driving ideology behind them bar the worship of their own bank accounts and egos. We're then usually stuck until they've failed enough to let the other colour take over at the next juncture. Therefore, for me anyway, it's always a vote to see which side of that same tribe wins each time with very little impact on the state of things. PR however, again just for me, is slightly more democratic in that it provides a bit more debate, scrutiny and challenge over policy et al. It will more 'proportionally represent' the population, with a few more ideas in the air and concentrated reflection of the communities within the whole. In theory anyway I feel without even a stick let alone Labrador on this one however! Look forward to reading others' contributions/thoughts. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91

The Democratic Republic of Kent 28 Jun 24 10.51pm

Originally posted by cryrst

If you are the 'layman' cryst I shall be the 'blindman', so this is only the blind leading the... lay?

I am very much of the George Carlin persuasion in democracy being an illusion but I'd argue FPTP is the ultimate tool for this. We either vote for the red or blue team, all cut from the same cloth with no real driving ideology behind them bar the worship of their own bank accounts and egos. We're then usually stuck until they've failed enough to let the other colour take over at the next juncture.

Therefore, for me anyway, it's always a vote to see which side of that same tribe wins each time with very little impact on the state of things. PR however, again just for me, is slightly more democratic in that it provides a bit more debate, scrutiny and challenge over policy et al. It will more 'proportionally represent' the population, with a few more ideas in the air and concentrated reflection of the communities within the whole. In theory anyway

I feel without even a stick let alone Labrador on this one however! Look forward to reading others' contributions/thoughts.

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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