Rat deserts sinking ship.

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Rat deserts sinking ship.

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beak croydon 29 Apr 24 12.14pm
[Link] Not much of an excuse as the Tories deliberately ruined the N.H.S. over many years.
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beak

croydon 29 Apr 24 12.14pm

[Link] Not much of an excuse as the Tories deliberately ruined the N.H.S. over many years.

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The Dolphin 29 Apr 24 12.45pm
Pretty ridiculous statement Beak. I am sure that they haven't deliberately ruined it but it is certainly not in a good place and nor has it been for 40 years or more. Successive Governments just spout forth about the amount of money they are putting in without paying any attention to where or how it is spent. The NHS is broken and needs massive surgery over a decade or more to get it anywhere near to being fit for purpose. Some of the people running it leave a lot to be desired as well - if they come from the same crop who ran the Post Office - as I suspect that they do - then God help us, whatever the colour of the Government.
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The Dolphin

29 Apr 24 12.45pm

Pretty ridiculous statement Beak.
I am sure that they haven't deliberately ruined it but it is certainly not in a good place and nor has it been for 40 years or more.
Successive Governments just spout forth about the amount of money they are putting in without paying any attention to where or how it is spent.
The NHS is broken and needs massive surgery over a decade or more to get it anywhere near to being fit for purpose.
Some of the people running it leave a lot to be desired as well - if they come from the same crop who ran the Post Office - as I suspect that they do - then God help us, whatever the colour of the Government.

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Badger11 Beckenham 29 Apr 24 1.15pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Pretty ridiculous statement Beak. I am sure that they haven't deliberately ruined it but it is certainly not in a good place and nor has it been for 40 years or more. Successive Governments just spout forth about the amount of money they are putting in without paying any attention to where or how it is spent. The NHS is broken and needs massive surgery over a decade or more to get it anywhere near to being fit for purpose. Some of the people running it leave a lot to be desired as well - if they come from the same crop who ran the Post Office - as I suspect that they do - then God help us, whatever the colour of the Government. Agreed. It will take real courage to reform the NHS and I doubt our lord and masters have that. Even Thatcher shied away fro the reforms that are really needed. The management structure is wrong and needs fixing but there are too many untouchables that someone need to address. Far too many people use the NHS as a back stop to their private consultant / nurse career. A consultant can't see you for 6 months but will see you next week if you go private (a nice incentive for his private work). This all dates back to the foundation of the NHS and despite the doctors claims to defend the NHS was all about them lining their own pockets. Staff should be told you work for the NHS or go private but you cannot have two masters. To be clear I am not against someone working part time but if they have spare working hours they should be doing that for the NHS. Imagine telling your boss you can't work next week because you are working for one of his rivals. Agency's should be given a ultimatum agree to reduce fees or lose you NHS contract. Agencies should not be allowed to charge more than 10-15% above the pay scale for that person. Short term there would be uproar but once you get past this I think you would see the number of NHS staff rise as agency staff realise they are better off in the NHS and consultants decide to actually do a weeks work. Edited by Badger11 (29 Apr 2024 1.17pm) One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 29 Apr 24 1.15pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Agreed.

It will take real courage to reform the NHS and I doubt our lord and masters have that. Even Thatcher shied away fro the reforms that are really needed.

The management structure is wrong and needs fixing but there are too many untouchables that someone need to address.

Far too many people use the NHS as a back stop to their private consultant / nurse career. A consultant can't see you for 6 months but will see you next week if you go private (a nice incentive for his private work).

This all dates back to the foundation of the NHS and despite the doctors claims to defend the NHS was all about them lining their own pockets.

Staff should be told you work for the NHS or go private but you cannot have two masters.

To be clear I am not against someone working part time but if they have spare working hours they should be doing that for the NHS. Imagine telling your boss you can't work next week because you are working for one of his rivals.

Agency's should be given a ultimatum agree to reduce fees or lose you NHS contract. Agencies should not be allowed to charge more than 10-15% above the pay scale for that person.

Short term there would be uproar but once you get past this I think you would see the number of NHS staff rise as agency staff realise they are better off in the NHS and consultants decide to actually do a weeks work.

Edited by Badger11 (29 Apr 2024 1.17pm)

One more point

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steeleye20 Croydon 29 Apr 24 1.53pm
'You can't trust the tories on the NHS'. The NHS was in good shape under Labour. Things we took for granted are so much more difficult now. The idea that you could just go down and get seen, or get your teeth fixed, are now an operation in itself.
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steeleye20

Croydon 29 Apr 24 1.53pm

'You can't trust the tories on the NHS'.

The NHS was in good shape under Labour.

Things we took for granted are so much more difficult now.

The idea that you could just go down and get seen, or get your teeth fixed, are now an operation in itself.

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beak croydon 29 Apr 24 2.09pm
Originally posted by The Dolphin Pretty ridiculous statement Beak. I am sure that they haven't deliberately ruined it but it is certainly not in a good place and nor has it been for 40 years or more. Successive Governments just spout forth about the amount of money they are putting in without paying any attention to where or how it is spent. The NHS is broken and needs massive surgery over a decade or more to get it anywhere near to being fit for purpose. Some of the people running it leave a lot to be desired as well - if they come from the same crop who ran the Post Office - as I suspect that they do - then God help us, whatever the colour of the Government. I hold that view.
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beak

croydon 29 Apr 24 2.09pm

Originally posted by The Dolphin

Pretty ridiculous statement Beak.
I am sure that they haven't deliberately ruined it but it is certainly not in a good place and nor has it been for 40 years or more.
Successive Governments just spout forth about the amount of money they are putting in without paying any attention to where or how it is spent.
The NHS is broken and needs massive surgery over a decade or more to get it anywhere near to being fit for purpose.
Some of the people running it leave a lot to be desired as well - if they come from the same crop who ran the Post Office - as I suspect that they do - then God help us, whatever the colour of the Government.

I hold that view.

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silvertop Portishead 29 Apr 24 2.12pm
The heading of this thread is perhaps unfair/misleading. He will cross the floor on a point of principle and then stand down at the GE. Hardly a rat.
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silvertop

Portishead 29 Apr 24 2.12pm

The heading of this thread is perhaps unfair/misleading. He will cross the floor on a point of principle and then stand down at the GE. Hardly a rat.

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Hrolf The Ganger 29 Apr 24 3.14pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 'You can't trust the tories on the NHS'. The NHS was in good shape under Labour. Things we took for granted are so much more difficult now. The idea that you could just go down and get seen, or get your teeth fixed, are now an operation in itself. Hilarious. They have cost the NHS and therefore the taxpayer a fortune with PFI contracts.
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Hrolf The Ganger

29 Apr 24 3.14pm

Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger

Originally posted by steeleye20

'You can't trust the tories on the NHS'.

The NHS was in good shape under Labour.

Things we took for granted are so much more difficult now.

The idea that you could just go down and get seen, or get your teeth fixed, are now an operation in itself.

Hilarious.

They have cost the NHS and therefore the taxpayer a fortune with PFI contracts.

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 29 Apr 24 8.17pm
More like still wants the expense account. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 29 Apr 24 8.17pm

More like still wants the expense account.

Red and Blue Army!

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martin2412 Living The Dream 29 Apr 24 8.36pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Hilarious. They have cost the NHS and therefore the taxpayer a fortune with PFI contracts. Is the correct answer. I saw something recently about the Princess Royal Hospital in Farnborough costing £118m to build, but the tax payer has to pay back as part of the PFI agreement £1.2 billion over 60 years. And this is just one of many. They knew the country would be in hock for decades to come, but it made them look good at the time.
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martin2412

Living The Dream 29 Apr 24 8.36pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Hilarious.

They have cost the NHS and therefore the taxpayer a fortune with PFI contracts.

Is the correct answer.

I saw something recently about the Princess Royal Hospital in Farnborough costing £118m to build, but the tax payer has to pay back as part of the PFI agreement £1.2 billion over 60 years.

And this is just one of many.

They knew the country would be in hock for decades to come, but it made them look good at the time.

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Matov 29 Apr 24 9.00pm
If you are elected as an MP for one party and then defect to another, you should also resign. This is the only honourable thing to do. Anything else is betrayal, no matter how much you want to dress it up. If you then want to stand for election again, representing that new party then fair play but to stay on in Parliament is a disgrace. No matter who or what you are. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

29 Apr 24 9.00pm

If you are elected as an MP for one party and then defect to another, you should also resign. This is the only honourable thing to do. Anything else is betrayal, no matter how much you want to dress it up. If you then want to stand for election again, representing that new party then fair play but to stay on in Parliament is a disgrace. No matter who or what you are.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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martin2412 Living The Dream 29 Apr 24 9.10pm
Originally posted by Matov If you are elected as an MP for one party and then defect to another, you should also resign. This is the only honourable thing to do. Anything else is betrayal, no matter how much you want to dress it up. If you then want to stand for election again, representing that new party then fair play but to stay on in Parliament is a disgrace. No matter who or what you are. Exactly. I'd be livid if I voted for him as a Tory, but then found my vote has effectively elected a Labour MP. It's wrong any way around, and should not be allowed to happen. What's to stop (in theory) every MP defecting to the Monster Raving Looney Party for example, and then them having an unelected majority ?
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martin2412

Living The Dream 29 Apr 24 9.10pm

Originally posted by Matov

Exactly. I'd be livid if I voted for him as a Tory, but then found my vote has effectively elected a Labour MP.

It's wrong any way around, and should not be allowed to happen.

What's to stop (in theory) every MP defecting to the Monster Raving Looney Party for example, and then them having an unelected majority ?

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CPFC1965 Warrington 29 Apr 24 10.24pm
If he truly stands by his convictions he'd resign and a bye election would be called. Funny how he's keeping his salary and changing sides, a typical grabbing tory. I'm more ashamed with Starmer for accepting him into the fold.
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CPFC1965

Warrington 29 Apr 24 10.24pm

If he truly stands by his convictions he'd resign and a bye election would be called. Funny how he's keeping his salary and changing sides, a typical grabbing tory. I'm more ashamed with Starmer for accepting him into the fold.

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