Government Statistics, Why they Are Important

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Government Statistics, Why they Are Important

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Dec 23 9.11am
I have posted a number of times about how appalling this country is on simple counting e.g. How many people from the EU live in this country. Mrs May "3.5m" when it was actually 5.5m. The ONS is not fit for purpose. The there is the forecasting. Since the OBR was established to provide data to the government to set economic policy it has been woeful in its predictions. The Bank of England is the same, it can't pick a winner in a one horse race. This stuff matters. Today we have the BOE Chairman explaining that the jobs data maybe out by 1m people either way. Think about that 1 million people, that is not a tiny percentage that is huge. [Link] How is the government and the bodies that do economic forecasting supposed to get it right when we have no idea about the basics of the economy. This is not a party political issue but somebody needs to get a grip and do better. I have mentioned before that in Croatia all sales tills are linked to the government. There is plenty of technology available to improve our data gathering I can only assume that the ONS has been crying out for it otherwise they are really not doing their job. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 10 Dec 23 9.11am

I have posted a number of times about how appalling this country is on simple counting e.g.

How many people from the EU live in this country. Mrs May "3.5m" when it was actually 5.5m.

The ONS is not fit for purpose.

The there is the forecasting. Since the OBR was established to provide data to the government to set economic policy it has been woeful in its predictions. The Bank of England is the same, it can't pick a winner in a one horse race.

This stuff matters.

Today we have the BOE Chairman explaining that the jobs data maybe out by 1m people either way. Think about that 1 million people, that is not a tiny percentage that is huge.

[Link]

How is the government and the bodies that do economic forecasting supposed to get it right when we have no idea about the basics of the economy.

This is not a party political issue but somebody needs to get a grip and do better. I have mentioned before that in Croatia all sales tills are linked to the government. There is plenty of technology available to improve our data gathering I can only assume that the ONS has been crying out for it otherwise they are really not doing their job.

One more point

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ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 10 Dec 23 9.30am
Originally posted by Badger11 I have posted a number of times about how appalling this country is on simple counting e.g. How many people from the EU live in this country. Mrs May "3.5m" when it was actually 5.5m. The ONS is not fit for purpose. The there is the forecasting. Since the OBR was established to provide data to the government to set economic policy it has been woeful in its predictions. The Bank of England is the same, it can't pick a winner in a one horse race. This stuff matters. Today we have the BOE Chairman explaining that the jobs data maybe out by 1m people either way. Think about that 1 million people, that is not a tiny percentage that is huge. [Link] How is the government and the bodies that do economic forecasting supposed to get it right when we have no idea about the basics of the economy. This is not a party political issue but somebody needs to get a grip and do better. I have mentioned before that in Croatia all sales tills are linked to the government. There is plenty of technology available to improve our data gathering I can only assume that the ONS has been crying out for it otherwise they are really not doing their job. These are usually excuses for a national ID card. I never supported it in the past but would now - particularly if we could deport the illegal people in the black economy or fake welfare recipients. However, we all know they won't be going anywhere. They can now pretend to be Palestinian - along with the other pretences used. Red and Blue Army!
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ASCPFC

Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 10 Dec 23 9.30am

Originally posted by Badger11

I have posted a number of times about how appalling this country is on simple counting e.g.

How many people from the EU live in this country. Mrs May "3.5m" when it was actually 5.5m.

The ONS is not fit for purpose.

This stuff matters.

Today we have the BOE Chairman explaining that the jobs data maybe out by 1m people either way. Think about that 1 million people, that is not a tiny percentage that is huge.

[Link]

How is the government and the bodies that do economic forecasting supposed to get it right when we have no idea about the basics of the economy.

These are usually excuses for a national ID card. I never supported it in the past but would now - particularly if we could deport the illegal people in the black economy or fake welfare recipients. However, we all know they won't be going anywhere. They can now pretend to be Palestinian - along with the other pretences used.

Red and Blue Army!

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Dec 23 10.21am
Originally posted by ASCPFC These are usually excuses for a national ID card. I never supported it in the past but would now - particularly if we could deport the illegal people in the black economy or fake welfare recipients. However, we all know they won't be going anywhere. They can now pretend to be Palestinian - along with the other pretences used. I am not convinced of the benefits of an ID card unless everybody was forced to carry one and produce it upon demand which would never happen. For the majority of law abiding people it is fairly easy to prove our identity, for the rest they would not carry an id card anyway. But this isn't about id's it about statistics. A lot of the numbers are just statistical sampling which in the past was probably the most efficient method at the time. Today we should be able to do real time data mining for a lot of this stuff e.g. Point of Sale, employment figures etc. For some reason though no one is interested in upgrading our economy to do this. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 10 Dec 23 10.21am

Originally posted by ASCPFC

I am not convinced of the benefits of an ID card unless everybody was forced to carry one and produce it upon demand which would never happen.

For the majority of law abiding people it is fairly easy to prove our identity, for the rest they would not carry an id card anyway.

But this isn't about id's it about statistics. A lot of the numbers are just statistical sampling which in the past was probably the most efficient method at the time.

Today we should be able to do real time data mining for a lot of this stuff e.g. Point of Sale, employment figures etc. For some reason though no one is interested in upgrading our economy to do this.

One more point

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PalazioVecchio south pole 10 Dec 23 10.35am
in places like Leicester, every back-garden has an unofficial mini-house....packed full of fellas. All working cash-in-hand. And no official data to measure this. some boffin calculated that the quantity of weekly garbage collected in Leicester has gone off the Richter scale.....the only reliable measure. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 10 Dec 23 10.35am

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in places like Leicester, every back-garden has an unofficial mini-house....packed full of fellas. All working cash-in-hand. And no official data to measure this.

some boffin calculated that the quantity of weekly garbage collected in Leicester has gone off the Richter scale.....the only reliable measure.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Dec 23 10.54am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio in places like Leicester, every back-garden has an unofficial mini-house....packed full of fellas. All working cash-in-hand. And no official data to measure this. some boffin calculated that the quantity of weekly garbage collected in Leicester has gone off the Richter scale.....the only reliable measure. Exactly my point. We don't know how many people are living in this country legally, does anyone believe the officials numbers? The illegals will always be difficult to gauge because they are well illegal. But if you can't get the number that is here by right correct what chance do you have. And then they wonder why public services are inadequate. Then of course there are our trade figures, import and export. Think of a number then months later you will find out it's wrong by a large margin. Is it that difficult to collate trade numbers? I suspect that other countries have a far better handle on these stats. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 10 Dec 23 10.54am

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

in places like Leicester, every back-garden has an unofficial mini-house....packed full of fellas. All working cash-in-hand. And no official data to measure this.

some boffin calculated that the quantity of weekly garbage collected in Leicester has gone off the Richter scale.....the only reliable measure.

Exactly my point. We don't know how many people are living in this country legally, does anyone believe the officials numbers? The illegals will always be difficult to gauge because they are well illegal. But if you can't get the number that is here by right correct what chance do you have.

And then they wonder why public services are inadequate.

Then of course there are our trade figures, import and export. Think of a number then months later you will find out it's wrong by a large margin.

Is it that difficult to collate trade numbers?

I suspect that other countries have a far better handle on these stats.

One more point

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Behind Enemy Lines Sussex 10 Dec 23 11.16am
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio in places like Leicester, every back-garden has an unofficial mini-house....packed full of fellas. All working cash-in-hand. And no official data to measure this. some boffin calculated that the quantity of weekly garbage collected in Leicester has gone off the Richter scale.....the only reliable measure. I don't know where I found the information (it was about a decade ago), but there was a report doing the rounds which estimated that the population of the country was about 5 million out from official figures (that's an extra 5 million people than expected). The data was collected from the supermarkets who could work out how much food was being sold and what the average person consumed. Never heard of it since but there will be other ways of estimating the true figures for the population. But don't expect the government to be collating these sorts of statistics; far too embarrassing for them. hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.
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Behind Enemy Lines

Sussex 10 Dec 23 11.16am

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Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

in places like Leicester, every back-garden has an unofficial mini-house....packed full of fellas. All working cash-in-hand. And no official data to measure this.

some boffin calculated that the quantity of weekly garbage collected in Leicester has gone off the Richter scale.....the only reliable measure.

I don't know where I found the information (it was about a decade ago), but there was a report doing the rounds which estimated that the population of the country was about 5 million out from official figures (that's an extra 5 million people than expected). The data was collected from the supermarkets who could work out how much food was being sold and what the average person consumed. Never heard of it since but there will be other ways of estimating the true figures for the population. But don't expect the government to be collating these sorts of statistics; far too embarrassing for them.

hats off to palace, they were always gonna be louder, and hate to say it but they were impressive ALL bouncing and singing.

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Forest Hillbilly in a hidey-hole 10 Dec 23 12.54pm
Some data will be used. Then manipulated by statistics to make a case for something. Other data will fall by the wayside and be discarded, because it's uncomfortable reading. I disengage, I turn the page.
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Forest Hillbilly

in a hidey-hole 10 Dec 23 12.54pm

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Some data will be used. Then manipulated by statistics to make a case for something.
Other data will fall by the wayside and be discarded, because it's uncomfortable reading.

I disengage, I turn the page.

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Dec 23 12.58pm
Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines I don't know where I found the information (it was about a decade ago), but there was a report doing the rounds which estimated that the population of the country was about 5 million out from official figures (that's an extra 5 million people than expected). The data was collected from the supermarkets who could work out how much food was being sold and what the average person consumed. Never heard of it since but there will be other ways of estimating the true figures for the population. But don't expect the government to be collating these sorts of statistics; far too embarrassing for them. I suspect you are on to something. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 10 Dec 23 12.58pm

Originally posted by Behind Enemy Lines

I suspect you are on to something.

One more point

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Stirlingsays 10 Dec 23 1.50pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC These are usually excuses for a national ID card. I never supported it in the past but would now - particularly if we could deport the illegal people in the black economy or fake welfare recipients. However, we all know they won't be going anywhere. They can now pretend to be Palestinian - along with the other pretences used. The benefits of the ID card are significantly beaten by the negatives. We don't need it to deport who shouldn't be here.....this was always Blair's idea....use immigration to push for the ID card and put a major implementation plank of the social credit system into place. The reality is that they won't use an ID card to solve immigration....at most they would slow it down a little. The same result of minority status just ten years further down the line. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Dec 2023 1.53pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

10 Dec 23 1.50pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

The benefits of the ID card are significantly beaten by the negatives.

The reality is that they won't use an ID card to solve immigration....at most they would slow it down a little. The same result of minority status just ten years further down the line.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Dec 2023 1.53pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Dec 23 2.37pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays The benefits of the ID card are significantly beaten by the negatives. We don't need it to deport who shouldn't be here.....this was always Blair's idea....use immigration to push for the ID card and put a major implementation plank of the social credit system into place. The reality is that they won't use an ID card to solve immigration....at most they would slow it down a little. The same result of minority status just ten years further down the line. Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Dec 2023 1.53pm) The Spanish Train bomb terrorist all had valid id cards. As I said above most people can prove their identity if required. The criminal and the illegal would never carry id anyway (it's kinda the point). So what is the benefit of a copper forcing me to produce id when I already have a Driving Licence, credit cards on the Electoral roll , credit reports etc. The only reason I can see is if they link government benefits to a national id card. Currently there are millions of dodgy National Insurance numbers either having been issued based on fraudulent documents, not cancelled due to death or simple incompetence. I shared the same NI number with another individual due to a clerical cock up. Now as long as the ID scheme worked properly you could then eliminate all the dodgy NI numbers. Anyway it aint going to happen and as another poster suggested the politicians may not want to know what the real stats are as I suspect the voters would be less than impressed. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 10 Dec 23 2.37pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

The benefits of the ID card are significantly beaten by the negatives.

We don't need it to deport who shouldn't be here.....this was always Blair's idea....use immigration to push for the ID card and put a major implementation plank of the social credit system into place.

The reality is that they won't use an ID card to solve immigration....at most they would slow it down a little. The same result of minority status just ten years further down the line.

Edited by Stirlingsays (10 Dec 2023 1.53pm)

The Spanish Train bomb terrorist all had valid id cards. As I said above most people can prove their identity if required. The criminal and the illegal would never carry id anyway (it's kinda the point).

So what is the benefit of a copper forcing me to produce id when I already have a Driving Licence, credit cards on the Electoral roll , credit reports etc.

The only reason I can see is if they link government benefits to a national id card. Currently there are millions of dodgy National Insurance numbers either having been issued based on fraudulent documents, not cancelled due to death or simple incompetence. I shared the same NI number with another individual due to a clerical cock up.

Now as long as the ID scheme worked properly you could then eliminate all the dodgy NI numbers.

Anyway it aint going to happen and as another poster suggested the politicians may not want to know what the real stats are as I suspect the voters would be less than impressed.

One more point

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 10 Dec 23 2.51pm
Am I right in thinking that the only forms of legal ID in the UK for Britain's is Full indate Passport & Photo Full Driving Licence? This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13

On The Road To Hell & Alicante 10 Dec 23 2.51pm

Am I right in thinking that the only forms of legal ID in the UK for Britain's is Full indate Passport & Photo Full Driving Licence?

This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.

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Badger11 Beckenham 10 Dec 23 3.12pm
Originally posted by eagleman13 Am I right in thinking that the only forms of legal ID in the UK for Britain's is Full indate Passport & Photo Full Driving Licence? I'm not sure there is a clear answer. There are lots of forms of id it will depend on what you are doing. Certainly applying for a job employers want to see your passport as this confirms nationality. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 10 Dec 23 3.12pm

Originally posted by eagleman13

Am I right in thinking that the only forms of legal ID in the UK for Britain's is Full indate Passport & Photo Full Driving Licence?

I'm not sure there is a clear answer. There are lots of forms of id it will depend on what you are doing. Certainly applying for a job employers want to see your passport as this confirms nationality.

One more point

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