Roy & the Bench Boys ( our Subs )

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Roy & the Bench Boys ( our Subs )

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PalazioVecchio south pole 27 Aug 23 6.42pm
Heaven forbid that this little Eagle would ever question the sage advice and veracity of Roy's decision making. I love Croydon Roy. however, does anybody else feel that Roy's reluctance to bring on Subs before the 89th minute is note-worthy ? and that tired legs must surely hurt our performances ? especially for any older players. Forget about wages, for a second. Footballers want game-time. If i was offered to sit on the bench under Roy or some other Prem club....i would seriously consider the other options. You need opportunities to prove you can excel at the highest level. And if i saw some Donkey getting more game-time than myself, i would be furious. Many of us will now agree that Speroni was a better 'keeper than his predecessor. We could have nearly lost him, due to lack of games. or perhaps there is a yawning gap in quality between our starting 11 and the rest of the squad ? Or is it about players all being on each others wavelength ? anybody got the statistics for our average performances in the final 25 minutes ? of course, tactical decisions are massively influenced by whether we are winning , losing or drawing....at the time. And also influenced by the stature of our opposition and whether we are playing at home or away. i will confess to being sometimes horrified at our options on the bench.....remember Benteke anybody ? or Luka ? What are your thoughts ? In your discussion, please give reference to other clubs, managers, countries, & leagues. Edited by PalazioVecchio (27 Aug 2023 7.02pm) Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 27 Aug 23 6.42pm

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Heaven forbid that this little Eagle would ever question the sage advice and veracity of Roy's decision making. I love Croydon Roy.

however,
does anybody else feel that Roy's reluctance to bring on Subs before the 89th minute is note-worthy ? and that tired legs must surely hurt our performances ? especially for any older players.

Forget about wages, for a second. Footballers want game-time. If i was offered to sit on the bench under Roy or some other Prem club....i would seriously consider the other options. You need opportunities to prove you can excel at the highest level. And if i saw some Donkey getting more game-time than myself, i would be furious. Many of us will now agree that Speroni was a better 'keeper than his predecessor. We could have nearly lost him, due to lack of games.

or perhaps there is a yawning gap in quality between our starting 11 and the rest of the squad ? Or is it about players all being on each others wavelength ?

anybody got the statistics for our average performances in the final 25 minutes ?

of course, tactical decisions are massively influenced by whether we are winning , losing or drawing....at the time. And also influenced by the stature of our opposition and whether we are playing at home or away.

i will confess to being sometimes horrified at our options on the bench.....remember Benteke anybody ? or Luka ?

What are your thoughts ? In your discussion, please give reference to other clubs, managers, countries, & leagues.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (27 Aug 2023 7.02pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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EddieMac 27 Aug 23 9.18pm
I think the easiest way to answer your own question is to have a look at the quality on our bench.
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EddieMac

27 Aug 23 9.18pm

I think the easiest way to answer your own question is to have a look at the quality on our bench.

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doombear Too far from Selhurst Park 27 Aug 23 10.51pm
Hodgson has brought on 4 subs this season - 2 in each of the last two games: Ahamada in 74th and 71st minutes; Rak-Sakyi in 83rd minute; Mateta in 71st. These are hardly 89th minute subs. The issue of using subs is surely about: 1. Whether the game situation requires subs (think the unnecessary subs Vieira made against Arsenal and Brentford that resulted in their equalizers when we had been in control of the games) 2. whether you have people on the bench who you think might change the game for you.
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doombear

Too far from Selhurst Park 27 Aug 23 10.51pm

Hodgson has brought on 4 subs this season - 2 in each of the last two games: Ahamada in 74th and 71st minutes; Rak-Sakyi in 83rd minute; Mateta in 71st. These are hardly 89th minute subs.

The issue of using subs is surely about:
1. Whether the game situation requires subs (think the unnecessary subs Vieira made against Arsenal and Brentford that resulted in their equalizers when we had been in control of the games)
2. whether you have people on the bench who you think might change the game for you.

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cROYdonrogers Leamington Spa 28 Aug 23 8.30am
I think Roy has improved slightly with his subs since his return. He does not freshen up at say 70mins with 2 or 3 since frankly he doesn't have the sqad. Saturday he moved Eze left in the hope it would bear fruit and put Ahamada in his place. Mateta for Eddy was just a hopeful punt but not one that undermined the integrity of the team. And of course Mateta is useful defending corners. Bring Rak Sakyi on? For who. Not Ayew in a tight game. Maybe for Schlupp but I sense he was happy with the point at that stage.
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cROYdonrogers

Leamington Spa 28 Aug 23 8.30am

I think Roy has improved slightly with his subs since his return. He does not freshen up at say 70mins with 2 or 3 since frankly he doesn't have the sqad.
Saturday he moved Eze left in the hope it would bear fruit and put Ahamada in his place. Mateta for Eddy was just a hopeful punt but not one that undermined the integrity of the team. And of course Mateta is useful defending corners.
Bring Rak Sakyi on? For who. Not Ayew in a tight game. Maybe for Schlupp but I sense he was happy with the point at that stage.

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taylors lovechild 28 Aug 23 8.42am
I think the one thing we can take from the first three games is that Roy has some faith in Ahamada. He's clearly never rated Mateta. I get the feeling he doesn't trust JRS to do his defensive duties so we may only see him when either we're chasing a game in the final minutes, or if we have a comfortable lead. Another factor behind the lack of subs could be Roy making a point that we have an incredibly thin squad. You want him to make subs, then maybe give him some worth making.
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taylors lovechild

28 Aug 23 8.42am

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I think the one thing we can take from the first three games is that Roy has some faith in Ahamada. He's clearly never rated Mateta. I get the feeling he doesn't trust JRS to do his defensive duties so we may only see him when either we're chasing a game in the final minutes, or if we have a comfortable lead.

Another factor behind the lack of subs could be Roy making a point that we have an incredibly thin squad. You want him to make subs, then maybe give him some worth making.

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MonsterMunch Cambridge 28 Aug 23 9.16am
In Roys previous stint he said many times if he thought players in the bench could affect the game he would have brought them on. Apart from Ahamada I don’t think he feels any differently now imo. As others have said he was clearly never a fan of JPM, although played a bit more towards the end of Roy’s reign. JRS I’m not sure he’ll get much of a look in with Roy is my guy feeling.
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MonsterMunch

Cambridge 28 Aug 23 9.16am

In Roys previous stint he said many times if he thought players in the bench could affect the game he would have brought them on. Apart from Ahamada I don’t think he feels any differently now imo. As others have said he was clearly never a fan of JPM, although played a bit more towards the end of Roy’s reign. JRS I’m not sure he’ll get much of a look in with Roy is my guy feeling.

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southnorwoodhill 28 Aug 23 9.49am
I'll wait and see how Roy introduces Franca from the bench after his return to fitness. I presume Franca will start on the bench and be gradually introduced, but given Roy's previous history with late substitutions or none at all I wonder how much game time Franca will actually get.
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southnorwoodhill

28 Aug 23 9.49am

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I'll wait and see how Roy introduces Franca from the bench after his return to fitness. I presume Franca will start on the bench and be gradually introduced, but given Roy's previous history with late substitutions or none at all I wonder how much game time Franca will actually get.

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Elpis In a pub 28 Aug 23 10.05am
Originally posted by EddieMac I think the easiest way to answer your own question is to have a look at the quality on our bench. I would agree , as some (including myself) said at the time when bigger benches and more subs were permitted , it was only going to benefit the top clubs with bigger and better squads .. How many times have we held our own in matches until the opposition makes three changes bringing on top players that would walk into our first eleven ? Our response is a couple of past it players about to hang their boots up and an untried 18 year old . Allright I made that up but you get my drift . Maybe when/if we have a fully fit squad we will have one or two that make a difference
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Elpis

In a pub 28 Aug 23 10.05am

Originally posted by EddieMac

I think the easiest way to answer your own question is to have a look at the quality on our bench.

I would agree , as some (including myself) said at the time when bigger benches and more subs were permitted , it was only going to benefit the top clubs with bigger and better squads ..

How many times have we held our own in matches until the opposition makes three changes bringing on top players that would walk into our first eleven ? Our response is a couple of past it players about to hang their boots up and an untried 18 year old .

Allright I made that up but you get my drift . Maybe when/if we have a fully fit squad we will have one or two that make a difference

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NEILLO Shoreham-by-Sea 28 Aug 23 10.14am
I know that Roy's philosophy is that the eleven selected to start is the team he trusts to get a result. However, adding to that equation is the strength of the subs bench. And at the moment we are light on players that could make a difference. Old, Ungifted and White
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NEILLO

Shoreham-by-Sea 28 Aug 23 10.14am

I know that Roy's philosophy is that the eleven selected to start is the team he trusts to get a result. However, adding to that equation is the strength of the subs bench. And at the moment we are light on players that could make a difference.

Old, Ungifted and White

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PatrickA London 28 Aug 23 10.16am
I’ve observed a change in Hodgson’s approach this time around. I agree that his options from the bench remain limited at this stage which can make this problematic. However, against Arsenal he took Joel Ward off and essentially played without a right back in an effort to get back in the game. Ahamada and Rak Saki were tasked with operating the right flank. It was against 10 men and Arsenal played with everybody behind the ball, but nonetheless it wasn’t’ ‘typical Roy.’ On Saturday the behind the scenes technical team observed we weren’t taking control of the midfield and changes were made in the set up to be more like the 433 system we were playing at the end of last season. This was’nt autocratic dinosaur Roy , but was evidence of a more consensual approach to the tactics employed. I was critical of Roy last time around and thought he was possibly holding us back. However, he does have better and younger players at his disposal now and he seems to have responded to this in a positive manner.
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PatrickA

London 28 Aug 23 10.16am

I’ve observed a change in Hodgson’s approach this time around.
I agree that his options from the bench remain limited at this stage which can make this problematic.
However, against Arsenal he took Joel Ward off and essentially played without a right back in an effort to get back in the game.
Ahamada and Rak Saki were tasked with operating the right flank.
It was against 10 men and Arsenal played with everybody behind the ball, but nonetheless it wasn’t’ ‘typical Roy.’
On Saturday the behind the scenes technical team observed we weren’t taking control of the midfield and changes were made in the set up to be more like the 433 system we were playing at the end of last season.
This was’nt autocratic dinosaur Roy , but was evidence of a more consensual approach to the tactics employed.

I was critical of Roy last time around and thought he was possibly holding us back.
However, he does have better and younger players at his disposal now and he seems to have responded to this in a positive manner.

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Putitout Oxford 28 Aug 23 10.19am
It isn’t just a case of Roy improving things simply by making substitutions in most games. Our bench can only bring fresh legs ,in other areas it can actually weaken us because the opposition have substitutes that really are class players that brought on make our subs more of a liability than improvement. If we had real quality on the bench it might be right to question their use , but at this moment in time nothing on our bench is a nailed on improvement that can’t be nullified by superior opposition benches.
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Putitout

Oxford 28 Aug 23 10.19am

It isn’t just a case of Roy improving things simply by making substitutions in most games. Our bench can only bring fresh legs ,in other areas it can actually weaken us because the opposition have substitutes that really are class players that brought on make our subs more of a liability than improvement. If we had real quality on the bench it might be right to question their use , but at this moment in time nothing on our bench is a nailed on improvement that can’t be nullified by superior opposition benches.

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beak croydon 28 Aug 23 11.02am
Lyrics Well, East Coast girls are hip I really dig those styles they wear And the Southern girls, with the way they talk They knock me out when I'm down there The Midwest farmers' daughters really make you feel all right And the Northern girls, with the way they kiss They keep their boyfriends warm at night I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California girls The West Coast has the sunshine And the girls all get so tanned I dig a French bikini on Hawaiian island dolls By a palm tree in the sand I been all around this great big world And I seen all kinds of girls Yeah, but I couldn't wait to get back in the States Back to the cutest girls in the world I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California I wish they all could be California girls I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the) I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the) I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the) I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the) I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the) I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the) Dyslexia rules.
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beak

croydon 28 Aug 23 11.02am

Lyrics
Well, East Coast girls are hip
I really dig those styles they wear
And the Southern girls, with the way they talk
They knock me out when I'm down there
The Midwest farmers' daughters really make you feel all right
And the Northern girls, with the way they kiss
They keep their boyfriends warm at night
I wish they all could be California
I wish they all could be California
I wish they all could be California girls
The West Coast has the sunshine
And the girls all get so tanned
I dig a French bikini on Hawaiian island dolls
By a palm tree in the sand
I been all around this great big world
And I seen all kinds of girls
Yeah, but I couldn't wait to get back in the States
Back to the cutest girls in the world
I wish they all could be California
I wish they all could be California
I wish they all could be California girls
I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the)
I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the)
I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the)
I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the)
I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the)
I wish they all could be California (girls, girls, girls, yeah, I dig the)
Dyslexia rules.

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