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Strategy

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jb7587 Flag Crawley 24 Jul 23 10.59am Send a Private Message to jb7587 Add jb7587 as a friend

As a perennial summer window optimist I find myself slipping down the slope of pessimism this summer.

With the Zaha saga looking to finally be over, I can honestly say, thank god for that. He has been a great player for us with many incredible performances. My only regret is we didn't get the money I felt we could have commanded for him in the market at the right time. I remind myself he is only worth what someone will pay for him. Onwards and good luck to him, in the dizzy heights of the Turkish Super Lig...

More concerning moving forward is the many swirling rumours surround some of our top players.

If the likes of Doucoure, Olise (rumour says he has a 35mil buy out clause, which to me is terrible business our end if true), Anderson and Guehi leave we will be left with the likes of Hughes, Riedewald in the middle and Tomkins and Richards (maybe O'Brien) at the back.

Every club at our level has to accept that clubs will come in for your best players and that we have to do what we can to cover moves out with moves in and squad depth.

In my opinion, which obviously I'm okay for you to not agree with, our squad players are capable of filling in for a few games to cover injury but aren't good enough to compete at the level, I hope, we aim to be at come the end of the season.

Notoriously we are useless at getting deals done too, we get outbid at the last, or to conservative with our offer and players follow the money elsewhere. I don't blame the players for that, they're all mercenaries these days, have a finite career plus a family to look after blah blah. If I made it pro I'm certain I'd take 15mil a year in Saudi for example integrity be damned, I mean it probably wouldn't that much. I'm 36 it could still happen right...

So with several players linked with moves, our transfer team bringing players in dubious in their speed (and usually blaming our limited budget) plus the lack of quality outside the starting eleven, I worry that we could be in a rotten situation come the start of the season or end of the window.

I also wonder what our ambition is as a club. Viera in charge had us in freefall, so I agreed with the board on that one, and Hodgson steadies us again, as he always has, but is our goal mid table ? Is it staying up ? I laughed at Arsenal fans under Wenger saying top four champions league is like a trophy, what's our trophy ?

I think the board who after being incredible saving us as they did, which no one can ever take away from them, often has a penny pinching attitude. They err on the side of caution, which is good, mostly. We have held our position in the premier league now for 10 seasons. We have consolidated, built the training facility, which looks to have hit the standard required for our level, we have plans for the stadium, all of which is great but what are our plans for the pitch, the players and the manager.

I'd love to see a statement of intent from our board. We are in a good position with a first eleven full of good premier league quality and with an addition or two (striker, again in my opinion) could we push on a get a conference league spot ? Can we finish above the likes of West Ham, Villa, Bournemouth and especially Brighton.

Maybe teams such as City, Utd, Newcastle, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool are going to sew up the top of the division with their ridiculous transfer budgets and crazy salaries. Is that just something we are accepting now or can a way around it be found ? I'm not foolish enough to suggest we attempt to match their spending (I doubt we could attract the players even if we did throw money about like transfer Todd), nor am I advocating a filthy rich Oil tycoon, or member of a royal family buy us as a distraction from their boredom of swimming through their vaults a la Scrooge McDuck. Leicester City however won the league, miraculous though it was, and reliant on a lot of those afore mentioned teams performing well beneath what they were expected to and were capable of. They put themselves in the position to be at the right place at the right time to become one of only seven teams to have won it (I'm excluding pre premier league era because we all know the league didn't exist before 92/93...)

To conclude this long winded (possibly boring ?!) post we either think inside the box, aim for 10th and hope to avoid relegation, while maybe cashing in on some of the great talent (the dubious transfer team got right Eze, Olise, Doucoure, Anderson, Guehi), which is the sort of season perhaps most of us are comfortable with, feel safe and secure about and have perhaps come to expect.

OR we take a gamble, a calculated gamble. Looking at the current squad we could go on and get a spot in Europe this season. Lets keep Doucoure, lets add a striker, lets get Olise and Eze back together lighting up Selhurst. Its not now or never but we are set up to allow us a chance be brave and go for it a little. In my opinion if we went for it and failed, we would still avoid relegation and then can default back to selling everyone off next summer, that and hopefully getting rid of Macron as a kit supplier. I can fill up another long winded post just about that so I won't start

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 24 Jul 23 11.17am Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by jb7587

As a perennial summer window optimist I find myself slipping down the slope of pessimism this summer.

With the Zaha saga looking to finally be over, I can honestly say, thank god for that. He has been a great player for us with many incredible performances. My only regret is we didn't get the money I felt we could have commanded for him in the market at the right time. I remind myself he is only worth what someone will pay for him. Onwards and good luck to him, in the dizzy heights of the Turkish Super Lig...

More concerning moving forward is the many swirling rumours surround some of our top players.

If the likes of Doucoure, Olise (rumour says he has a 35mil buy out clause, which to me is terrible business our end if true), Anderson and Guehi leave we will be left with the likes of Hughes, Riedewald in the middle and Tomkins and Richards (maybe O'Brien) at the back.

Every club at our level has to accept that clubs will come in for your best players and that we have to do what we can to cover moves out with moves in and squad depth.

In my opinion, which obviously I'm okay for you to not agree with, our squad players are capable of filling in for a few games to cover injury but aren't good enough to compete at the level, I hope, we aim to be at come the end of the season.

Notoriously we are useless at getting deals done too, we get outbid at the last, or to conservative with our offer and players follow the money elsewhere. I don't blame the players for that, they're all mercenaries these days, have a finite career plus a family to look after blah blah. If I made it pro I'm certain I'd take 15mil a year in Saudi for example integrity be damned, I mean it probably wouldn't that much. I'm 36 it could still happen right...

So with several players linked with moves, our transfer team bringing players in dubious in their speed (and usually blaming our limited budget) plus the lack of quality outside the starting eleven, I worry that we could be in a rotten situation come the start of the season or end of the window.

I also wonder what our ambition is as a club. Viera in charge had us in freefall, so I agreed with the board on that one, and Hodgson steadies us again, as he always has, but is our goal mid table ? Is it staying up ? I laughed at Arsenal fans under Wenger saying top four champions league is like a trophy, what's our trophy ?

I think the board who after being incredible saving us as they did, which no one can ever take away from them, often has a penny pinching attitude. They err on the side of caution, which is good, mostly. We have held our position in the premier league now for 10 seasons. We have consolidated, built the training facility, which looks to have hit the standard required for our level, we have plans for the stadium, all of which is great but what are our plans for the pitch, the players and the manager.

I'd love to see a statement of intent from our board. We are in a good position with a first eleven full of good premier league quality and with an addition or two (striker, again in my opinion) could we push on a get a conference league spot ? Can we finish above the likes of West Ham, Villa, Bournemouth and especially Brighton.

Maybe teams such as City, Utd, Newcastle, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool are going to sew up the top of the division with their ridiculous transfer budgets and crazy salaries. Is that just something we are accepting now or can a way around it be found ? I'm not foolish enough to suggest we attempt to match their spending (I doubt we could attract the players even if we did throw money about like transfer Todd), nor am I advocating a filthy rich Oil tycoon, or member of a royal family buy us as a distraction from their boredom of swimming through their vaults a la Scrooge McDuck. Leicester City however won the league, miraculous though it was, and reliant on a lot of those afore mentioned teams performing well beneath what they were expected to and were capable of. They put themselves in the position to be at the right place at the right time to become one of only seven teams to have won it (I'm excluding pre premier league era because we all know the league didn't exist before 92/93...)

To conclude this long winded (possibly boring ?!) post we either think inside the box, aim for 10th and hope to avoid relegation, while maybe cashing in on some of the great talent (the dubious transfer team got right Eze, Olise, Doucoure, Anderson, Guehi), which is the sort of season perhaps most of us are comfortable with, feel safe and secure about and have perhaps come to expect.

OR we take a gamble, a calculated gamble. Looking at the current squad we could go on and get a spot in Europe this season. Lets keep Doucoure, lets add a striker, lets get Olise and Eze back together lighting up Selhurst. Its not now or never but we are set up to allow us a chance be brave and go for it a little. In my opinion if we went for it and failed, we would still avoid relegation and then can default back to selling everyone off next summer, that and hopefully getting rid of Macron as a kit supplier. I can fill up another long winded post just about that so I won't start

I'm no barometer for the feelings of the rest of the usership but I found you post very far from boring. Well written, composed, agree with almost all of it and a good commentary on our current situation.

I fear the longer term ambition of the club is suspect at best and can be subject to more scrutiny given some short term decision making. As a football fan the want for more is ever present and often focused upon the short term/immediate.

That's sort of where I am atm. Personally, I think we're a striker, winger and two full backs away from a very good starting XI, as things stand. That's not including the wider squad however.

I try and keep it in the season now, we seem to be moving forward iteratively in our current state whereas it was all hands on deck, avoiding relegation for a number of years. The fear has therefore transitioned to either a halt in this progression or indeed a regression as a result of not keeping momentum.

We had one great period for bringing in players but that was almost necessary and reactionary given the state of the squad. We all knew the new stand would be a very long term project with no overnight success and therefore just the avoidance of relegation was the first port of call with any improvement somewhat of a bonus.

I know as much as my cat when it comes to the boards plans for both the longer and shorter terms but I suspect penny-pinching will feature prominently. I do fear however that we will fall into a state of damage limitations as opposed to continued progression on the pitch. At the end of the day, as a fan and season ticket holder, you want the team to improve from signings, to the management and performances.

I have therefore adopted a 'let's wait and see' attitude, combined with sheer hoping and wishing for the best whilst expecting the worst. Again, my immediate exploration of my Palace related feelings is therefore limited to hoping for some attacking additions this window, the retention of most of our talent, and perhaps a full back or two. This will then transfer to the week by week, day by day, and on Saturdays, minute by minute anxiety, ecstasy and heartbreak that inevitably comes from a CPFC season. I'm really not sure what to expect anymore so don't bother entertaining it too much until it happens... COYP.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 24 Jul 23 11.23am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

I don't think the appointment of Roy on a one season deal is indicative of anything other than a short term strategy.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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Canterbury Palace Flag Whitstable 24 Jul 23 11.24am Send a Private Message to Canterbury Palace Add Canterbury Palace as a friend

This is where Dougie needs to earn his money.

Eze, Olise, Guehi, Andersen and Doucoure were all brought here young with the potential to sell on. The fact that all are being linked with big moves shows that we have done absolutely brilliantly to select, recruit and improve them.

The next challenge is transitioning away from them without making backward strides and this is what Brighton do so well.

We clearly can't sell them all in a single summer but if, say, Olise and Andersen go, that money needs to be reinvested not only in replacing them but also buying a couple more players to strengthen the squad.

I've mentioned it in other threads but Hudson-Odoi, for example, strikes me as a player with an enormous potential upside if we can get his career back on track.

We've got a great track record with Championship players so would expect us to be looking there for a couple of young talents.

Use the opportunity to grow stronger, rinse and repeat.

 


We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

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ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 24 Jul 23 11.33am Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

A lot of our attitudes would be changed if the new stand were any sort of reality. At least we'd have something tangible. Yes, I know academy, but the fans don't really see it unless they drive past or see it on Tele. We can vaunt it all we want but it doesn't mean anything unless we get players for the first team. I've always thought our youngsters were decent but it honestly hasn't looked like any are actual Premier League starters at present. As for strategy, and I'm not being rude to the OP, I struggle to believe we're capable of having a strategy. A strategy is long term planning - yet, we seem too many times to just stick on a plaster and have done with it. Probably the most telling points are Zaha leaving for Turkey! What a Turkey frankly! And Roy reappointed at whatever age. He did well, both did well, fair enough but there's no future. Zaha this season could have mentored the youngsters, instead he's had his hissy fit over something we don't know, and gone. Strategy has continuity and change, legacy and momentum - we have none of that. We have Lerma - decent enough, experienced. One, maybe two seasons then what? We have to keep the spine of the team or we're going to have to buy genuinely established players. Hence the Laporte and Hudson-Odoi links. I guess maybe Ozoh and Rak-Sakyi next season, or maybe not. Strategy however, we don't even have tactics really - except the same ones we all know on the pitch.
I believe our ownership is the problem. Realistically we need one rich owner, not the Mish mash of different interests we have currently. The way things are we'll always be treading water, fighting fires and not winning anything. The best we can hope for is a cup final/semi final/ maybe tenth. I'm happy enough with it but is it sustainable? One would have to think that it could go wrong in any given season. Reminds me of Willo and we will go down every year. Where is that old bugger? Anyway, it is what it is I guess.

 


Red and Blue Army!

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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 24 Jul 23 11.36am Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

In my time I have seen us build 3 good teams who were only a couple of players short of being in with a chance of winning something.

Team of the Eighties, the Wright and Bright team and now this one.

It's so frustrating that over 50 plus years we have to put up with rubbish and then when it looks like the corner is turned the team breaks up.

I guess that's what being a Palace fan means.

 


One more point

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PatrickA Flag London 24 Jul 23 11.46am Send a Private Message to PatrickA Add PatrickA as a friend

As a long term fan I concur entirely with this.
It’s a paradox because seemingly the only way to overcome this is to have wealthy owners from e.g the Middle East (Man C , Newcastle), but on the other hand I don’t want this.


Originally posted by Badger11

In my time I have seen us build 3 good teams who were only a couple of players short of being in with a chance of winning something.

Team of the Eighties, the Wright and Bright team and now this one.

It's so frustrating that over 50 plus years we have to put up with rubbish and then when it looks like the corner is turned the team breaks up.

I guess that's what being a Palace fan means.

 

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MrRobbo Flag Chaldon 24 Jul 23 11.49am Send a Private Message to MrRobbo Add MrRobbo as a friend

To add a possibly more positive counter to some of your points.

At present, regardless of internet chatter. All our best players are still with us. The increased speculation, whilst annoying is a barometer that we have players that are attractive to other clubs. Hard to see the positives, but it is.

Olise and the release clause. There are a lot of if this exists, and in what form. But if it does exist, we wouldn't have really had a choice. I'd take 2 seasons of Olise and a 30m profit than not signing him at all.

Despite the lack of apparent strategy or ambition, its undeniable that season on season the club is in a better place. New stadium plans looking hot, 3 players in the England squad.

Whilst league position is going to be the main yardstick for progress, there are so many outside influences impacting it.

We are moving forward, jsut slowly, and the progress isn't always linear.

 

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Elpis Flag In a pub 24 Jul 23 11.57am Send a Private Message to Elpis Add Elpis as a friend

Originally posted by Badger11

In my time I have seen us build 3 good teams who were only a couple of players short of being in with a chance of winning something.

Team of the Eighties, the Wright and Bright team and now this one.

It's so frustrating that over 50 plus years we have to put up with rubbish and then when it looks like the corner is turned the team breaks up.

I guess that's what being a Palace fan means.

This is true and has been followed by relegation on the occasions you mention

Edited by Elpis (24 Jul 2023 11.58am)

 

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Badger11 Flag Beckenham 24 Jul 23 12.08pm Send a Private Message to Badger11 Add Badger11 as a friend

Originally posted by MrRobbo

To add a possibly more positive counter to some of your points.

At present, regardless of internet chatter. All our best players are still with us. The increased speculation, whilst annoying is a barometer that we have players that are attractive to other clubs. Hard to see the positives, but it is.

Olise and the release clause. There are a lot of if this exists, and in what form. But if it does exist, we wouldn't have really had a choice. I'd take 2 seasons of Olise and a 30m profit than not signing him at all.

Despite the lack of apparent strategy or ambition, its undeniable that season on season the club is in a better place. New stadium plans looking hot, 3 players in the England squad.

Whilst league position is going to be the main yardstick for progress, there are so many outside influences impacting it.

We are moving forward, jsut slowly, and the progress isn't always linear.

I hope your are correct of course.

 


One more point

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southnorwoodhill Flag 24 Jul 23 1.20pm Send a Private Message to southnorwoodhill Add southnorwoodhill as a friend

Originally posted by ASCPFC

A lot of our attitudes would be changed if the new stand were any sort of reality. At least we'd have something tangible. Yes, I know academy, but the fans don't really see it unless they drive past or see it on Tele. We can vaunt it all we want but it doesn't mean anything unless we get players for the first team. I've always thought our youngsters were decent but it honestly hasn't looked like any are actual Premier League starters at present. As for strategy, and I'm not being rude to the OP, I struggle to believe we're capable of having a strategy. A strategy is long term planning - yet, we seem too many times to just stick on a plaster and have done with it. Probably the most telling points are Zaha leaving for Turkey! What a Turkey frankly! And Roy reappointed at whatever age. He did well, both did well, fair enough but there's no future. Zaha this season could have mentored the youngsters, instead he's had his hissy fit over something we don't know, and gone. Strategy has continuity and change, legacy and momentum - we have none of that. We have Lerma - decent enough, experienced. One, maybe two seasons then what? We have to keep the spine of the team or we're going to have to buy genuinely established players. Hence the Laporte and Hudson-Odoi links. I guess maybe Ozoh and Rak-Sakyi next season, or maybe not. Strategy however, we don't even have tactics really - except the same ones we all know on the pitch.
I believe our ownership is the problem. Realistically we need one rich owner, not the Mish mash of different interests we have currently. The way things are we'll always be treading water, fighting fires and not winning anything. The best we can hope for is a cup final/semi final/ maybe tenth. I'm happy enough with it but is it sustainable? One would have to think that it could go wrong in any given season. Reminds me of Willo and we will go down every year. Where is that old bugger? Anyway, it is what it is I guess.

Good post. The reappointment of Roy is indicative of where we are: batten down the hatches and maybe we can see out another season in the PL.
It's all money; a promising young player has gone from relegated side Leicester to Newcastle for a reported £38m, basically that's what we're dealing with. Once any of our players show any promise they become likely targets, so it's up to Parish and Co to keep them sweet.
Actually I think we've done well to sustain 10 seasons in the PL, it seems to me that the strategy is based upon short term survival and circus act plate spinning skills.

 

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