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dreamwaverider London 06 Apr 22 8.33am | |
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This season is now showing the emergence of some very clever planning. Osian Roberts - first team assistant coach. Plus we already had Between them, these guys look like they are pulling off something really special. The completion of the Academy is all part of the plan. Things are looking bright.
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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 06 Apr 22 8.48am | |
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Missed out . . . Shaun Derry -first team coach
This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise. |
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sydtheeagle England 06 Apr 22 8.50am | |
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Something that's overlooked but been a massive factor in our turnaround and may even just have had some input from Harris and Blitzer is how Palace are run using a very American sports-team business model. Whatever job title you want to apply to his role, Dougie to all intents and purposes is what in the States they call a General Manager. It's now quite clear he runs the show and the scouting department and squad assembly fall to him. It's also quite clear that while he works with the manager, he's first among equals. Unlike how teams operated in the old days and some other teams still do even now, the manager doesn't choose and buy his own players. Dougie does the scouting and buying and decides what sort of player is right for the Palace ethos. Yes, the manager can input his own preferences but it's the general manager who has the final decision. That's as it should be, at least in the clear GM business model. And Dougie has been hugely successful in the role. He's put the bullets in the gun, then (along with Parish) found the right marksman (Vieira) to do the shooting using the fully loaded gun he's assembled. If Dougie's reputation was once diminished in these parts, it shouldn't be any more. As General Managers should be (in the States, they're broadly speaking just as high profile as coaches), he is the foundation stone on which everything this year has been built. And the owners (likely including Harris and Blitzer for the reasons given above) should get a lot of credit for installing a system to run the club that works, using their experience elsewhere to do so. Vieira, a brilliant choice of manager, is really the icing on the cake. A lot of credit to be handed out at Palace these days. Dougie should be getting the lion's share.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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Midlands Eagle 06 Apr 22 9.02am | |
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Originally posted by sydtheeagle
Unlike how teams operated in the old days and some other teams still do even now, the manager doesn't choose and buy his own players. Dougie does the scouting and buying and decides what sort of player is right for the Palace ethos. Yes, the manager can input his own preferences but it's the general manager who has the final decision. The problem with that system is that if the manager doesn't fancy the player that his "General Manager" has supplied him with he won't play him as we saw a couple of times with players that Roy Hodgson was given
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Painter Croydon 06 Apr 22 9.03am | |
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I can understand people getting a bit carried away with the result against Arsenal. The reality is we have only won 27% of our Premier games this season, granted we haven’t lost that many.
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nead1 06 Apr 22 9.56am | |
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Originally posted by sydtheeagle
Something that's overlooked but been a massive factor in our turnaround and may even just have had some input from Harris and Blitzer is how Palace are run using a very American sports-team business model. Whatever job title you want to apply to his role, Dougie to all intents and purposes is what in the States they call a General Manager. It's now quite clear he runs the show and the scouting department and squad assembly fall to him. It's also quite clear that while he works with the manager, he's first among equals. Unlike how teams operated in the old days and some other teams still do even now, the manager doesn't choose and buy his own players. Dougie does the scouting and buying and decides what sort of player is right for the Palace ethos. Yes, the manager can input his own preferences but it's the general manager who has the final decision. That's as it should be, at least in the clear GM business model. And Dougie has been hugely successful in the role. He's put the bullets in the gun, then (along with Parish) found the right marksman (Vieira) to do the shooting using the fully loaded gun he's assembled. If Dougie's reputation was once diminished in these parts, it shouldn't be any more. As General Managers should be (in the States, they're broadly speaking just as high profile as coaches), he is the foundation stone on which everything this year has been built. And the owners (likely including Harris and Blitzer for the reasons given above) should get a lot of credit for installing a system to run the club that works, using their experience elsewhere to do so. Vieira, a brilliant choice of manager, is really the icing on the cake. A lot of credit to be handed out at Palace these days. Dougie should be getting the lion's share. I completely agree with you Syd. Freedman is front and centre of pretty much everything that is going on football wise and has clearly patched up any differences that existed with Parish when he left for Bolton. Indeed, clearly Parish recognised his capabilities and business sense and I suspect the role has grown significantly since he was first appointed. Whilst I think Parish is a very savvy operator, I think he has had two major bits of luck since 2010. First Wilf and secondly Freedman - both of whom were already at the club back in 2010. Freedman appears to keep quite a low profile but his input is there for all to see and lets hope it continues for a long time to come.
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taylors lovechild 06 Apr 22 10.08am | |
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Originally posted by sydtheeagle
Something that's overlooked but been a massive factor in our turnaround and may even just have had some input from Harris and Blitzer is how Palace are run using a very American sports-team business model. Whatever job title you want to apply to his role, Dougie to all intents and purposes is what in the States they call a General Manager. It's now quite clear he runs the show and the scouting department and squad assembly fall to him. It's also quite clear that while he works with the manager, he's first among equals. Unlike how teams operated in the old days and some other teams still do even now, the manager doesn't choose and buy his own players. Dougie does the scouting and buying and decides what sort of player is right for the Palace ethos. Yes, the manager can input his own preferences but it's the general manager who has the final decision. That's as it should be, at least in the clear GM business model. And Dougie has been hugely successful in the role. He's put the bullets in the gun, then (along with Parish) found the right marksman (Vieira) to do the shooting using the fully loaded gun he's assembled. If Dougie's reputation was once diminished in these parts, it shouldn't be any more. As General Managers should be (in the States, they're broadly speaking just as high profile as coaches), he is the foundation stone on which everything this year has been built. And the owners (likely including Harris and Blitzer for the reasons given above) should get a lot of credit for installing a system to run the club that works, using their experience elsewhere to do so. Vieira, a brilliant choice of manager, is really the icing on the cake. A lot of credit to be handed out at Palace these days. Dougie should be getting the lion's share. To be fair, I don't think it's been overlooked at all. Roy mentioned at least once a week the role that Freedman had, so I think everyone within the club knew he had a big hand in the successful recruitment last summer. I also think we were a bit fortuitous with Vieira as he clearly was not the first choice, but kudos to the club for taking the chance on a manager looking to prove himself rather than panicking and going for a well worn option. Right now we have every reason to be positive and Dougie definitely deserves praise, but I don't think it can be underestimated just how good our current coaching setup is. A positive sign is that we keep improving, showing that there is a plan. With Roy it always felt that his plan was finite once established, whereas it feels Vieira and his team have more ambitious plans which hopefully the club can help them fulfil.
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MrRobbo Chaldon 06 Apr 22 11.52am | |
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Originally posted by Painter
I can understand people getting a bit carried away with the result against Arsenal. The reality is we have only won 27% of our Premier games this season, granted we haven’t lost that many. V important point. We're are all on a high, and rightly so. But remember it was only a couple of weeks ago that we were digging the out for not being able to beat Norwich and Brentford. We will have loses of form, just look at Brighton, Villa, Newcastle, Southampton. All have stalled over the last couple of months.
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silvertop Portishead 06 Apr 22 12.34pm | |
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Originally posted by Painter
I can understand people getting a bit carried away with the result against Arsenal. The reality is we have only won 27% of our Premier games this season, granted we haven’t lost that many. Yes, but we have moved from lower mid table to upper mid table and the reason for the low win rate is the high draw rate, usually through silly errors mainly early season (save Wilf's comical pen miss) when we were transitioning with a new coaching team and many new squad players. The likely loss of CG will certainly hurt, and all this talk of Eze being an available replacement is tosh as they are very different players offering a very different service.
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silvertop Portishead 06 Apr 22 12.46pm | |
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Originally posted by taylors lovechild
To be fair, I don't think it's been overlooked at all. Roy mentioned at least once a week the role that Freedman had, so I think everyone within the club knew he had a big hand in the successful recruitment last summer. I also think we were a bit fortuitous with Vieira as he clearly was not the first choice, but kudos to the club for taking the chance on a manager looking to prove himself rather than panicking and going for a well worn option. Right now we have every reason to be positive and Dougie definitely deserves praise, but I don't think it can be underestimated just how good our current coaching setup is. A positive sign is that we keep improving, showing that there is a plan. With Roy it always felt that his plan was finite once established, whereas it feels Vieira and his team have more ambitious plans which hopefully the club can help them fulfil. That is the difference. With Roy we had more points than we do now (still, I think?). We were effective lower-mid, but were never likely to improve on that, even with a better squad. We had achieved the Stoke formula that kept them precisely mid table for 10 years. However, that formula has risk - look where Stoke are now. The current set up, with a freshened and younger squad, a largely new backroom, an academy likely to produce very decent talent, fabulous new training facilities and (one not to be overlooked) what appears to be a vastly improved physio team and facility, gives the impression that we have not fixed on any lower-mid certainty. It suggests - and this is why it is so exciting - that we are only at the start of a journey. The club seems to have created a platform that appears more likely to take us up rather than stagnate in the position we have sat for 9 years.
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sydtheeagle England 06 Apr 22 12.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
The problem with that system is that if the manager doesn't fancy the player that his "General Manager" has supplied him with he won't play him as we saw a couple of times with players that Roy Hodgson was given That shouldn't happen, and rarely does in the General Manager system. If it works properly, it's the General Manager who is primarily responsible for hiring the manager/coach. Yes, the owner has to approve, but the manager nevertheless is part of the GMs "organisation" and the GM is responsible for choosing him just as he is for choosing the players. When a manager is hired, he has to dovetail with the GMs vision for the squad; not the other way around. If a manager is interviewed who wants to do it "his way" then he doesn't get the job. I think when Dougie's role was more nascent, what you mentioned inevitably did happen with Roy. But now things have become clearer, I think Vieira accepting the job was probably partly influenced by the fact that he shared Dougie's vision and was happy with his role and responsibility for the squad. Given how many of Dougie's signings (even Mateta) are proving just what a job he's done, my guess is an awful lot of managers will be quite happy to work with him in future. I feel for Roy. He did a great job with what, in reality, was a transitional squad reaching its sell-by date, something we can see clearly now. It's also now obvious that he was never part of the long-term planning. I wouldn't blame him if seeing where we are today rankles with him a little bit, though he's far too classy to ever say so. But even Roy's departure shows the degree of competence behind Dougie's thinking and planning. Everything that's happened in the past twelve months has been scripted by us. Even the Wilf conversation, for the first time ever this summer, is no longer a matter of "can we persuade Wilf to stay?' but, rather, now it's "shall we let Wilf go if it suits us to?" And short of a top, top club coming in for him (which they won't), why would he want to leave?
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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sydtheeagle England 06 Apr 22 12.57pm | |
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I have no idea what roles and what degree of competence each of Vieira's staff possesses but I think there's always a place in a well-constructed coaching team for a "continuity" member; someone who understands the ethos of the club and can be a bridge with the supporters. Derry appears to have been chosen by Vieira for that role (similar to Duncan Ferguson's at Everton) and seems to be executing it well. He was a shrewd hire.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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