a few interesting programmes on the telly about the Partition of Ireland into the Republic and N.I.

It all seemed like a good idea at the time. And they say that 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

Like North and South Korea, newly created borders often create as many new problems as they solve some old problems.

The people in 1921 never envisaged a Catholic majority in the Province, due to high birth rates of one demographic and lower birth rates in a different demographic. And then all the problems associated with demographic transition.

In 1921 Perhaps instead of the 6 Counties (60:40 Protestant:Catholic) it may have been better to create a 4 county NI (100% Protestant). But then again in 1947 something similar happened in the creation of India/pakistan. Not exactly a peaceful transition, was it ?

The looneys at the extremes always want a fight, and always have unreasonable demands. And the moderates in the middle can only look on bemused.

Maybe the border is like a wheelchair, a necessary solution to a fairly intractable problem. Even though nobody wants it.

The link below explains the real origins of the politics of Ulster, to the uninitiated. Maybe the only colonised piece of territory in all of Europe ?
400 years of fun & games.

There are also lessons for England today from the historic mistakes of Ulster. Multiculturalism is often an edgy thing. And mono-cultural ghettos or failures of all to integrate (with each other ) will store up problems for later on.

Symbols matter : flags, anthems, languages, religions, football t shirts, and mindset. What school the kids attend ? or who can marry whom ?....all important considerations.

And so, love it or hate it. Happy Birthday the Border. Peace.

[Link]

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Jun 2021 1.26pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

we can even trace the origins of colonisations in Ireland to Elizabeth I, or as i would put it, 5 minutes after the Protestant Reformation.

When a military & economic superpower withdraws from a territory , there is often a civil war.

the brits withdrawal :

israel/palestine

india / pakistan...1947

southern ireland ( 1 civil war 1921 ) , and then edgy in Ulster.. a different civil war ( which isnt even all of Ulster).

The French withdrawal from Indochina/Vietnam....more bloodshed.

The Roman legions departure (449 AD) caused Celtic vs anglo-saxon Britain

The US withdrawal from Iraq - civil war.

And hence the EU withdrawing from the UK certainly makes for interesting times.

It strikes me that in 1900 the Southern Irish and the Brits both wanted to own & control Ulster. Today, maybe neither wants it ?

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

One of the issues with Ireland is the way history is taught and handed down to future generations. Ireland is totally nationalist, yet fails to see it. The Unionists have an English history or Scottish history that would seem totally out of step with actual English history. Combine the two inadequate and divisive narratives and Northern Ireland is what you get. Foreign people who study it, completely miss the point - as seen by Macron and countless others.
Most English simply aren't interested and I don't blame them. Questions about being Catholic or Protestant became irrelevant nearly two hundred years ago in England. But not in Ireland where I'm honestly often asked what a Protestant is - and they still won't believe it when I tell them. Irish think Protestant is Unionist, Unionists think Catholics are Republican. How to deal with this simplistic and stupid attitude is what people should consider.

Red and Blue Army!

i seriously doubt it.

At least Antrim can stay Prod & British, surely ? Along with a few thousand extra hectares in the vicinity. Give the unionists everything to the North & East of Lough Neagh. If Mickey O'Reilly the Catholic is living in East Belfast, offer him fifty grand and a council house to feckoff to Derry.

For the sake of keeping the peace.

But i agree with you about South County Down & Derry....it made a bit of sense as part of N.I in 1921 but they look very Nationalist today. If Alaister the Rangers supporter is living in Newry, offer him fifty grand and a council house to feckoff to Belfast.

Within a decade everybody will have fecked off to an appropriate jurisdiction with happy faces all round. No more ghetto's & Peace-Walls. No more riots.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (15 Jun 2021 4.35pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

with the thoughts of Loyalist terrorists getting violent in Dublin ? no thanks. I would rather respect the democratic wishes of a people with 400 years of history and three quarter of a million votes.

There is no advantage in forcing something upon them against their wishes.

If mainland Britain wants to de-couple from Ulster, then that is a separate question. We could end up with an Isle of Man ( Crown Dependency) type setup.

Considering Scotland may leave the UK, Ulster is the problem that never goes away. Surely the most important thing is peace and mutual respect for the two communities.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

Why would anybody not be angry at being forced to leave the EU against their wishes, have border it didn't want, be bullied lied to mis-sold the list goes on, and by a foreign power.

And it's loyalists too, who are outraged.

I have been seeing the whole saga in a different light.