Catalonia

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Catalonia

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buzby1 Devon 19 Oct 19 11.54am
The situation in Hong Kong is understandable - the people there want democracy and not the authoritarian rule of China. Catalonia and the riots going on in Barcelona are more puzzling. Barcelona and the region around it is among the most wealthy and wealth-making in Spain. It's not as if they are oppressed minority. Yes, they identify as Catalans and not Spanish and this leads to destructive nationalism. Something there's far too much of in the world, Given Spain's history and the Civil War in particular, destructive nationalism is very bad news. It looks and feels indulgent. Interested to know what others think.
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buzby1

Devon 19 Oct 19 11.54am

The situation in Hong Kong is understandable - the people there want democracy and not the authoritarian rule of China. Catalonia and the riots going on in Barcelona are more puzzling. Barcelona and the region around it is among the most wealthy and wealth-making in Spain. It's not as if they are oppressed minority. Yes, they identify as Catalans and not Spanish and this leads to destructive nationalism. Something there's far too much of in the world, Given Spain's history and the Civil War in particular, destructive nationalism is very bad news. It looks and feels indulgent.

Interested to know what others think.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 19 Oct 19 12.32pm
the alternative to Nationalism ? being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ? like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity. Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that. Its got nothing to do with wealth. The Norwegians are wealthier than us. Would you force them to drop their language and identity to speak English 24/7 ? or to pay their taxes to support a dole-head in a Welsh mining town ? or to stop singing their own national anthem ? dream on. The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble : the Kurds Kashmir Ulster the Balkans the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'. Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm) Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 19 Oct 19 12.32pm

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the alternative to Nationalism ?

being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ?

like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity.

Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that.

Its got nothing to do with wealth. The Norwegians are wealthier than us. Would you force them to drop their language and identity to speak English 24/7 ? or to pay their taxes to support a dole-head in a Welsh mining town ? or to stop singing their own national anthem ?

dream on.

The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble :

the Kurds
Kashmir
Ulster
the Balkans

the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm)

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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YT Oxford 19 Oct 19 12.51pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio the alternative to Nationalism ? being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ? like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity. Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that. Its got nothing to do with wealth. The Norwegians are wealthier than us. Would you force them to drop their language and identity to speak English 24/7 ? or to pay their taxes to support a dole-head in a Welsh mining town ? or to stop singing their own national anthem ? dream on. The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble : the Kurds Kashmir Ulster the Balkans the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'. Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm) Run that by me again? The sight of proud Catalonians smashing up their own capital city strikes me as a tad bizarre. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 19 Oct 19 12.51pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the alternative to Nationalism ?

being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ?

like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity.

Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that.

dream on.

The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble :

the Kurds
Kashmir
Ulster
the Balkans

the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm)

Run that by me again?

The sight of proud Catalonians smashing up their own capital city strikes me as a tad bizarre.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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buzby1 Devon 19 Oct 19 1.11pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio the alternative to Nationalism ? being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ? like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity. Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that. Its got nothing to do with wealth. The Norwegians are wealthier than us. Would you force them to drop their language and identity to speak English 24/7 ? or to pay their taxes to support a dole-head in a Welsh mining town ? or to stop singing their own national anthem ? dream on. The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble : the Kurds Kashmir Ulster the Balkans the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'. Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm)
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buzby1

Devon 19 Oct 19 1.11pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the alternative to Nationalism ?

being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ?

like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity.

Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that.

dream on.

The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble :

the Kurds
Kashmir
Ulster
the Balkans

the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm)

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buzby1 Devon 19 Oct 19 1.13pm
What's wrong with a multi-cultural government, Palazio? Seems to me to be a good idea. Spent some time in Barcelona - don't remember anyone being forced to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun. Chose your causes worth fighting for. This isn't one of them.
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buzby1

Devon 19 Oct 19 1.13pm

What's wrong with a multi-cultural government, Palazio? Seems to me to be a good idea.

Spent some time in Barcelona - don't remember anyone being forced to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun.

Chose your causes worth fighting for. This isn't one of them.

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Tom-the-eagle Croydon 19 Oct 19 1.21pm
Originally posted by PalazioVecchio the alternative to Nationalism ? being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ? like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity. Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that. Its got nothing to do with wealth. The Norwegians are wealthier than us. Would you force them to drop their language and identity to speak English 24/7 ? or to pay their taxes to support a dole-head in a Welsh mining town ? or to stop singing their own national anthem ? dream on. The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble : the Kurds Kashmir Ulster the Balkans the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'. Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm) Eh? No one is forcing them to speak Spanish just like no one is forcing you or me to speak English or the bloke who owns my local newsagent speaking Urdu. "It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit
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Tom-the-eagle

Croydon 19 Oct 19 1.21pm

Originally posted by PalazioVecchio

the alternative to Nationalism ?

being governed by a faceless, voiceless, multiculti regime ?

like the EU, China, etc. These rulers do not respect national identity, language, ethnicity.

Force the Catalans to speak Spanish at the barrel of a gun ? Franco already tried that.

dream on.

The 'Nation-State' works better than its alternatives. When this is forgotten there is often trouble :

the Kurds
Kashmir
Ulster
the Balkans

the Catalans are a nation with a language at least as vibrant as Welsh, Scots Gallic or Danish. To accuse them of being Spanish is as arrogant as calling a Dutchman an 'off kilter German'.

Edited by PalazioVecchio (19 Oct 2019 12.42pm)

Eh?

No one is forcing them to speak Spanish just like no one is forcing you or me to speak English or the bloke who owns my local newsagent speaking Urdu.

"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit

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corkery Cork City 19 Oct 19 1.34pm
Spain doesn't believe in self determination, just look at Gibraltar. Gibraltar wants nothing to do with Spain but the Spanish insist that they become part of Spain anyway. Compare that to the UK. The Scots had a vote, the Falklands had a vote, Malta had a vote etc. We'll never die
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corkery

Cork City 19 Oct 19 1.34pm

Spain doesn't believe in self determination, just look at Gibraltar. Gibraltar wants nothing to do with Spain but the Spanish insist that they become part of Spain anyway.

Compare that to the UK. The Scots had a vote, the Falklands had a vote, Malta had a vote etc.

We'll never die

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W12 19 Oct 19 6.30pm
At this stage I would support almost any independent claim that was made in any socialist/communist country. I would dissolve the union (taking Northern Ireland with us) to get away from the commie SNP and the impossible to sell Welsh party. The Welsh and the Scots are now just a drain on England.
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W12 19 Oct 19 6.30pm

At this stage I would support almost any independent claim that was made in any socialist/communist country.

I would dissolve the union (taking Northern Ireland with us) to get away from the commie SNP and the impossible to sell Welsh party.

The Welsh and the Scots are now just a drain on England.

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W12 19 Oct 19 6.31pm
Originally posted by W12 At this stage I would support almost any independent claim that was made in any socialist/communist country. I would dissolve the union (taking Northern Ireland with us) to get away from the commie SNP and the impossible to spell Welsh party. The Welsh and the Scots are now just a drain on England.
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W12 19 Oct 19 6.31pm

Originally posted by W12

At this stage I would support almost any independent claim that was made in any socialist/communist country.

I would dissolve the union (taking Northern Ireland with us) to get away from the commie SNP and the impossible to spell Welsh party.

The Welsh and the Scots are now just a drain on England.

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eagleman13 On The Road To Hell & Alicante 19 Oct 19 6.40pm
Originally posted by W12 At this stage I would support almost any independent claim that was made in any socialist/communist country. I would dissolve the union (taking Northern Ireland with us) to get away from the commie SNP and the impossible to sell Welsh party. The Welsh and the Scots are now just a drain on England. Oh dear You haven't got a clue, FYI, I live out here This operation, will make the 'Charge Of The Light Brigade' seem like a simple military exercise.
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eagleman13