So much for Davidson

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So much for Davidson

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Stirlingsays 22 Feb 18 1.21pm
Plenty of Tories have previously voiced support for Ruth Davidson as a future leader for the Tories. However hot on the release of the still far too high immigration figures into this country.... 244,000 Davidson tells us that we shouldn't be including foreign students in the figures and that 'the time for easy slogans is over' and on the...never achieved target of tens of thousands immigration she opines.... 'But we have to ask whether the target continues to be the right one' Davidson was of course a prominent campaigner for remainer. For me, anyone who supports Davidson is basically just looking for a Cameron like politician. We also have Labour's Abbott telling us how we should be letting in more foreigners instead of less (all future Labour voters of course) As usual, the politicians.....the vast majority of whom want 'remain' are doing all they can to change the reality of the vote to leave.....which was primarily a vote on immigration. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Feb 2018 1.21pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Feb 18 1.21pm

Plenty of Tories have previously voiced support for Ruth Davidson as a future leader for the Tories.

However hot on the release of the still far too high immigration figures into this country.... 244,000 Davidson tells us that we shouldn't be including foreign students in the figures and that 'the time for easy slogans is over' and on the...never achieved target of tens of thousands immigration she opines.... 'But we have to ask whether the target continues to be the right one'

Davidson was of course a prominent campaigner for remainer.

For me, anyone who supports Davidson is basically just looking for a Cameron like politician.

We also have Labour's Abbott telling us how we should be letting in more foreigners instead of less (all future Labour voters of course)

As usual, the politicians.....the vast majority of whom want 'remain' are doing all they can to change the reality of the vote to leave.....which was primarily a vote on immigration.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Feb 2018 1.21pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 22 Feb 18 2.45pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Plenty of Tories have previously voiced support for Ruth Davidson as a future leader for the Tories. However hot on the release of the still far too high immigration figures into this country.... 244,000 Davidson tells us that we shouldn't be including foreign students in the figures and that 'the time for easy slogans is over' and on the...never achieved target of tens of thousands immigration she opines.... 'But we have to ask whether the target continues to be the right one' Davidson was of course a prominent campaigner for remainer. For me, anyone who supports Davidson is basically just looking for a Cameron like politician. We also have Labour's Abbott telling us how we should be letting in more foreigners instead of less (all future Labour voters of course) As usual, the politicians.....the vast majority of whom want 'remain' are doing all they can to change the reality of the vote to leave.....which was primarily a vote on immigration. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Feb 2018 1.21pm) Only UK passport holders can vote in a general election so they wouldn't be much use to Labour, so your suggestion that this is her reason for saying something that you've also paraphrased and therefore not got right is a load of rubbish. Also most people who study demography agree that students should NOT be included in this statistic. They should be counted but separately as they are not economic migrants, but paying for a service in the UK and helping to improve UK institutions. UK Higher Education is an effective net exporter to the tune of £25bn. Including students in the stat and therefore the target threatens this industry and our economy for no reason other than ideology and xenophobia. Boris and Fox even support dropping students from this stat. Furthermore most students are young, don't use things like healthcare or benefits, and if they do stay, which many many don't (most Asian/US students for instance) they end up in decent jobs paying decent levels of tax and making net positive contributions to the economy and society. They also pay higher fees if they are outside the EU and this helps subsidise homegrown students. Sending out the message that we want fewer international students is ridiculous and counterproductive.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 22 Feb 18 2.45pm

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Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Plenty of Tories have previously voiced support for Ruth Davidson as a future leader for the Tories.

Davidson was of course a prominent campaigner for remainer.

For me, anyone who supports Davidson is basically just looking for a Cameron like politician.

We also have Labour's Abbott telling us how we should be letting in more foreigners instead of less (all future Labour voters of course)

As usual, the politicians.....the vast majority of whom want 'remain' are doing all they can to change the reality of the vote to leave.....which was primarily a vote on immigration.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Feb 2018 1.21pm)

Only UK passport holders can vote in a general election so they wouldn't be much use to Labour, so your suggestion that this is her reason for saying something that you've also paraphrased and therefore not got right is a load of rubbish.

Also most people who study demography agree that students should NOT be included in this statistic. They should be counted but separately as they are not economic migrants, but paying for a service in the UK and helping to improve UK institutions. UK Higher Education is an effective net exporter to the tune of £25bn. Including students in the stat and therefore the target threatens this industry and our economy for no reason other than ideology and xenophobia. Boris and Fox even support dropping students from this stat.

Furthermore most students are young, don't use things like healthcare or benefits, and if they do stay, which many many don't (most Asian/US students for instance) they end up in decent jobs paying decent levels of tax and making net positive contributions to the economy and society. They also pay higher fees if they are outside the EU and this helps subsidise homegrown students.

Sending out the message that we want fewer international students is ridiculous and counterproductive.

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Stirlingsays 22 Feb 18 3.26pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Only UK passport holders can vote in a general election so they wouldn't be much use to Labour, so your suggestion that this is her reason for saying something that you've also paraphrased and therefore not got right is a load of rubbish. Nonsense, a high set of immigrants who come in will go onto gain those passports. They will mostly all vote Labour. Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Also most people who study demography agree that students should NOT be included in this statistic. They should be counted but separately as they are not economic migrants, but paying for a service in the UK and helping to improve UK institutions. UK Higher Education is an effective net exporter to the tune of £25bn. Including students in the stat and therefore the target threatens this industry and our economy for no reason other than ideology and xenophobia. Boris and Fox even support dropping students from this stat. They are foreigners coming into the country. Hence they should be included in my opinion. Immigration figures aren't just about 'economic' migrants, but all of them. This breakdown of assumed 'good immigration' and 'negative immigration' is neither here nor there for me. This country has had far too much immigration into it since the nineties and it requires a correction and non action on any element of it is a negative as far as I'm concerned. Far too many students stay for the lie to be made that it doesn't matter. Fox and Johnson are proper Tories but I don't have to agree with them on everything. They have party self interest to consider in this matter....If they can chip off certain parts of immigration and present it as something else then lower immigration figures look better for them. Originally posted by CambridgeEagle Furthermore most students are young, don't use things like healthcare or benefits, and if they do stay, which many many don't (most Asian/US students for instance) they end up in decent jobs paying decent levels of tax and making net positive contributions to the economy and society. They also pay higher fees if they are outside the EU and this helps subsidise homegrown students. Sending out the message that we want fewer international students is ridiculous and counterproductive. I'm accepting of a certain number of international students.....but purely on the footing that we accept the principle of foreign study. I don't agree with relying upon foreign money as a major consideration of how our universities are funded. Good luck to students who do well out of the system but they are a secondary concern. I think your internationalist viewpoint is ridiculous and counterproductive as well, particularly to national cohesion. Too much internationalism has led to London to being an English city in name only. A city that is widely different in voting and other attitudes to the rest of England. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Feb 18 3.26pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Nonsense, a high set of immigrants who come in will go onto gain those passports. They will mostly all vote Labour.

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

They are foreigners coming into the country. Hence they should be included in my opinion. Immigration figures aren't just about 'economic' migrants, but all of them.

This breakdown of assumed 'good immigration' and 'negative immigration' is neither here nor there for me. This country has had far too much immigration into it since the nineties and it requires a correction and non action on any element of it is a negative as far as I'm concerned. Far too many students stay for the lie to be made that it doesn't matter.

Fox and Johnson are proper Tories but I don't have to agree with them on everything. They have party self interest to consider in this matter....If they can chip off certain parts of immigration and present it as something else then lower immigration figures look better for them.

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Sending out the message that we want fewer international students is ridiculous and counterproductive.

I'm accepting of a certain number of international students.....but purely on the footing that we accept the principle of foreign study.

I don't agree with relying upon foreign money as a major consideration of how our universities are funded. Good luck to students who do well out of the system but they are a secondary concern.

I think your internationalist viewpoint is ridiculous and counterproductive as well, particularly to national cohesion. Too much internationalism has led to London to being an English city in name only. A city that is widely different in voting and other attitudes to the rest of England.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 22 Feb 18 3.49pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I'm accepting of a certain number of international students.....but purely on the footing that we accept the principle of foreign study. I don't agree with relying upon foreign money as a major consideration of how our universities are funded. Good luck to students who do well out of the system but they are a secondary concern. I think your internationalist viewpoint is ridiculous and counterproductive as well, particularly to national cohesion. Too much internationalism has led to London to being an English city in name only. A city that is widely different in voting and other attitudes to the rest of England. More's the pity. London is a great city, made greater by its internationalism. This all sounds like 4 legs good 2 legs bad to me. You can't simply throw all immigrants into one pot unless you want to be xenophobic about it. Students from outside the EU are on specific study visas so would have to apply for a working visa at the end of their course to stay. These visas can be tracked so certainly going forward post Brexit it would make a lot more sense to include students in a separate measure and not have a arbitrary and low target on their number. Universities rely on this money so unless you advocate significant tax increases to meet the gap then you have a problem. Also those who apply for and get a UK passport are showing a desire to integrate and become British and have been accepted as such. I doubt a significant proportion of immigrants do actually apply for passports, especially not while we're in the EU.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 22 Feb 18 3.49pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I'm accepting of a certain number of international students.....but purely on the footing that we accept the principle of foreign study.

I don't agree with relying upon foreign money as a major consideration of how our universities are funded. Good luck to students who do well out of the system but they are a secondary concern.

I think your internationalist viewpoint is ridiculous and counterproductive as well, particularly to national cohesion. Too much internationalism has led to London to being an English city in name only. A city that is widely different in voting and other attitudes to the rest of England.

More's the pity. London is a great city, made greater by its internationalism.

This all sounds like 4 legs good 2 legs bad to me.

You can't simply throw all immigrants into one pot unless you want to be xenophobic about it. Students from outside the EU are on specific study visas so would have to apply for a working visa at the end of their course to stay. These visas can be tracked so certainly going forward post Brexit it would make a lot more sense to include students in a separate measure and not have a arbitrary and low target on their number.

Universities rely on this money so unless you advocate significant tax increases to meet the gap then you have a problem.

Also those who apply for and get a UK passport are showing a desire to integrate and become British and have been accepted as such. I doubt a significant proportion of immigrants do actually apply for passports, especially not while we're in the EU.

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 22 Feb 18 3.52pm
on Ruth Davidson she's basically a Cameroon, but with less affection for pork products. So it's not surprising anyone who liked Cameron would be a fan. I'd personally not want to see any pseudo-reincarnation the worst PM in history so she can stay in Scotland thank you.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 22 Feb 18 3.52pm

on Ruth Davidson she's basically a Cameroon, but with less affection for pork products. So it's not surprising anyone who liked Cameron would be a fan. I'd personally not want to see any pseudo-reincarnation the worst PM in history so she can stay in Scotland thank you.

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Feb 18 4.00pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle on Ruth Davidson she's basically a Cameroon, but with less affection for pork products. So it's not surprising anyone who liked Cameron would be a fan. I'd personally not want to see any pseudo-reincarnation the worst PM in history so she can stay in Scotland thank you. She's nothing like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Feb 18 4.00pm

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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

on Ruth Davidson she's basically a Cameroon, but with less affection for pork products. So it's not surprising anyone who liked Cameron would be a fan. I'd personally not want to see any pseudo-reincarnation the worst PM in history so she can stay in Scotland thank you.

She's nothing like Tony Blair or Gordon Brown.

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steeleye20 Croydon 22 Feb 18 4.46pm
Tony Blair was a fine PM. The voters thought so too, voted him in again after Iraq before you start. It was a huge error to remove an elected leader from office, even tho Gordon is a decent guy, but that should be for the public to decide. The successor goes on to defeat or a big drop in seats as has happened with Mrs May. Crown them at your peril.
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steeleye20

Croydon 22 Feb 18 4.46pm

Tony Blair was a fine PM.

The voters thought so too, voted him in again after Iraq before you start.

It was a huge error to remove an elected leader from office, even tho Gordon is a decent guy, but that should be for the public to decide.

The successor goes on to defeat or a big drop in seats as has happened with Mrs May.

Crown them at your peril.

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Hrolf The Ganger 22 Feb 18 5.06pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Tony Blair was a fine PM. The voters thought so too, voted him in again after Iraq before you start. It was a huge error to remove an elected leader from office, even tho Gordon is a decent guy, but that should be for the public to decide. The successor goes on to defeat or a big drop in seats as has happened with Mrs May. Crown them at your peril. The plus side is that anything you ever post after this can't make you seem more bonkers.
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Hrolf The Ganger

22 Feb 18 5.06pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Tony Blair was a fine PM.

The voters thought so too, voted him in again after Iraq before you start.

It was a huge error to remove an elected leader from office, even tho Gordon is a decent guy, but that should be for the public to decide.

The successor goes on to defeat or a big drop in seats as has happened with Mrs May.

Crown them at your peril.

The plus side is that anything you ever post after this can't make you seem more bonkers.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 22 Feb 18 8.47pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle on Ruth Davidson she's basically a Cameroon, but with less affection for pork products. So it's not surprising anyone who liked Cameron would be a fan. I'd personally not want to see any pseudo-reincarnation the worst PM in history so she can stay in Scotland thank you. Hear hear! But the worst pm in history record is soon to be broken i fear, thanks to mrs may !
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 22 Feb 18 8.47pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

Hear hear! But the worst pm in history record is soon to be broken i fear, thanks to mrs may !

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