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Sam Wallace in the telegraph

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MrCParrot Flag Taunton 31 Aug 17 7.29am Send a Private Message to MrCParrot Add MrCParrot as a friend

Pretty harsh article in the telegraph

De Boer knows the Ajax way – but can he adapt to Palace?

With his 3-4-3 and high-handed approach, the Dutchman risks having the shortest managerial reign in Premier League history
Terrible start: Frank de Boer has lost all three Premier League games and has yet to see his side score
Frank de Boer came to Crystal Palace this summer advocating “evolution not revolution”, which happened to be the same thing that Alan Partridge famously promised Tony Hayers in one of British TV’s finest comedy moments, although not before Alan had first endorsed the opposite.
The way things are panning out it may not be long before the 112-cap Dutch international is running through a south London car park with a major grievance and a large block of cheese on the end of a fork – figuratively speaking, of course. There is a good chance that after three straight defeats he will be sacked during this international break, making his reign the shortest of all Premier League managers.
Should it happen then De Boer will doubtless suggest that Palace were not courageous enough to see his brand of play through its difficult birth into a glorious maturation, and many will mourn modern football’s ruthless short-termism. The problems with De Boer, however, go much deeper than his belief that a Republic of Total Football can be built overnight on the more pragmatic foundations laid by Sam Allardyce, Alan Pardew and other recent Selhurst Park predecessors.
The harsh reality is that players lose managers their jobs, and much more successful individuals than De Boer. One only needs to recall the fate of Jose Mourinho at Chelsea or Claudio Ranieri at Leicester City to see that if the dressing room is not carried along then events can spiral out of control. Harnessing your players’ confidence and faith is not a variable that lies outside the manager’s compass, it is a fundamental part of the job and De Boer’s track record in his short time at Palace has been lamentable.
There was general disbelief when De Boer persisted with the 3-4-3 system against Swansea
In pre-season he decided that Martin Kelly and Damien Delaney would be banished to train away from the first team and were out of contention for his squad. Instead he preferred to begin the season against Huddersfield Town with his new 3-4-3 formation featuring two 20-year-olds among his three centre-backs, the new signing Jairo Riedewald 
from Ajax and Manchester United loanee Timothy Fosu-Mensah. To put that in perspective, there were no centre-backs starting games on the first weekend of the Premier League younger than Riedewald and Fosu-Mensah. In a position in which experience is crucial, Palace kicked off the season with two rookies who had 12 Premier League appearances between them – all of them for Fosu-Mensah, who is, strictly speaking, a full-back.
Kelly was recalled to the bench for the game against Liverpool and came on as a substitute in the third defeat, at home to Swansea City on Saturday. He might wonder what he has done wrong. He started 25 league games last season and played at centre-back in the wins over Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool that did so much to ensure Palace’s survival.
James Tomkins was left out then brought back. Fraizer Campbell was deemed surplus to requirements by De Boer and sold to Hull City, in a squad now badly short of strikers without the injured Wilfried Zaha and Connor Wickham. Andros Townsend had been deployed at right wing-back with moderate success during pre-season and was then on the bench on the opening day.
At the heart of De Boer’s failings so far has been the 3-4-3 formation that he abandoned at half-time against Swansea and which has proven spectacularly ill-suited to the players at his disposal. The Premier League-durable Palace of the previous four seasons have been an imperfect team in pursuit of an imperfect goal: survival in the division. At their best they have done so in a hard-fought style that cannot be replicated every week, but is enough to keep them in the top 17. Often the instinct in a manager to change radically a team’s style of play to a passing game is regarded as brave, not least when, like De Boer, he comes from a country that trademarked one of the game’s greatest advances in that regard. But at Palace it seems that they have a manager unable to accept the limitations of the club he is at and the nature of the annual battle they find themselves in. He knows the Ajax way, but does he know any other?
When the 3-4-3 system was tested in pre-season training at Palace, a team playing that style would be pitted against a shadow side in a more conventional 4-4-2 system and it was the latter which routinely won. De Boer pressed on with it. On one occasion the squad were surprised, to put it mildly, that there was no place in either XI for Joel Ward, who started every league game last season. Then on the first day of the season, Ward was brought in as a right wing-back and, like many of his team-mates, struggled with the formation.
With no goals scored in their first two games, and the system malfunctioning there was general disbelief when De Boer persisted with it against Swansea.
Dougie Freedman has come in as sporting director to try to offer the manager some experience of English football and to suggest viable signings in the last weeks of the transfer market. The club wanted nothing more than to make De Boer a success and would take no pleasure in sacking a manager after such little time, but then there are some who refuse to be helped.

 


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Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 31 Aug 17 7.47am Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

V interesting cheers for posting.

 

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Face in Wetherspoons Flag 31 Aug 17 7.55am Send a Private Message to Face in Wetherspoons Add Face in Wetherspoons as a friend

Originally posted by MrCParrot

Pretty harsh article in the telegraph

De Boer knows the Ajax way – but can he adapt to Palace?

With his 3-4-3 and high-handed approach, the Dutchman risks having the shortest managerial reign in Premier League history
Terrible start: Frank de Boer has lost all three Premier League games and has yet to see his side score
Frank de Boer came to Crystal Palace this summer advocating “evolution not revolution”, which happened to be the same thing that Alan Partridge famously promised Tony Hayers in one of British TV’s finest comedy moments, although not before Alan had first endorsed the opposite.
The way things are panning out it may not be long before the 112-cap Dutch international is running through a south London car park with a major grievance and a large block of cheese on the end of a fork – figuratively speaking, of course. There is a good chance that after three straight defeats he will be sacked during this international break, making his reign the shortest of all Premier League managers.
Should it happen then De Boer will doubtless suggest that Palace were not courageous enough to see his brand of play through its difficult birth into a glorious maturation, and many will mourn modern football’s ruthless short-termism. The problems with De Boer, however, go much deeper than his belief that a Republic of Total Football can be built overnight on the more pragmatic foundations laid by Sam Allardyce, Alan Pardew and other recent Selhurst Park predecessors.
The harsh reality is that players lose managers their jobs, and much more successful individuals than De Boer. One only needs to recall the fate of Jose Mourinho at Chelsea or Claudio Ranieri at Leicester City to see that if the dressing room is not carried along then events can spiral out of control. Harnessing your players’ confidence and faith is not a variable that lies outside the manager’s compass, it is a fundamental part of the job and De Boer’s track record in his short time at Palace has been lamentable.
There was general disbelief when De Boer persisted with the 3-4-3 system against Swansea
In pre-season he decided that Martin Kelly and Damien Delaney would be banished to train away from the first team and were out of contention for his squad. Instead he preferred to begin the season against Huddersfield Town with his new 3-4-3 formation featuring two 20-year-olds among his three centre-backs, the new signing Jairo Riedewald 
from Ajax and Manchester United loanee Timothy Fosu-Mensah. To put that in perspective, there were no centre-backs starting games on the first weekend of the Premier League younger than Riedewald and Fosu-Mensah. In a position in which experience is crucial, Palace kicked off the season with two rookies who had 12 Premier League appearances between them – all of them for Fosu-Mensah, who is, strictly speaking, a full-back.
Kelly was recalled to the bench for the game against Liverpool and came on as a substitute in the third defeat, at home to Swansea City on Saturday. He might wonder what he has done wrong. He started 25 league games last season and played at centre-back in the wins over Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool that did so much to ensure Palace’s survival.
James Tomkins was left out then brought back. Fraizer Campbell was deemed surplus to requirements by De Boer and sold to Hull City, in a squad now badly short of strikers without the injured Wilfried Zaha and Connor Wickham. Andros Townsend had been deployed at right wing-back with moderate success during pre-season and was then on the bench on the opening day.
At the heart of De Boer’s failings so far has been the 3-4-3 formation that he abandoned at half-time against Swansea and which has proven spectacularly ill-suited to the players at his disposal. The Premier League-durable Palace of the previous four seasons have been an imperfect team in pursuit of an imperfect goal: survival in the division. At their best they have done so in a hard-fought style that cannot be replicated every week, but is enough to keep them in the top 17. Often the instinct in a manager to change radically a team’s style of play to a passing game is regarded as brave, not least when, like De Boer, he comes from a country that trademarked one of the game’s greatest advances in that regard. But at Palace it seems that they have a manager unable to accept the limitations of the club he is at and the nature of the annual battle they find themselves in. He knows the Ajax way, but does he know any other?
When the 3-4-3 system was tested in pre-season training at Palace, a team playing that style would be pitted against a shadow side in a more conventional 4-4-2 system and it was the latter which routinely won. De Boer pressed on with it. On one occasion the squad were surprised, to put it mildly, that there was no place in either XI for Joel Ward, who started every league game last season. Then on the first day of the season, Ward was brought in as a right wing-back and, like many of his team-mates, struggled with the formation.
With no goals scored in their first two games, and the system malfunctioning there was general disbelief when De Boer persisted with it against Swansea.
Dougie Freedman has come in as sporting director to try to offer the manager some experience of English football and to suggest viable signings in the last weeks of the transfer market. The club wanted nothing more than to make De Boer a success and would take no pleasure in sacking a manager after such little time, but then there are some who refuse to be helped.

Spot on and SP and the Board brought it about. It is even more of a shambles than the start of last Season when Alan Pardew tried it out. He was sacked and Big Sam was brought in to get us back to playing in the style that best suited our strengths. Weeks spent trying to get a new Manager to take us forward and a foreign manager with no Premier League experience is brought in who instantly takes us back to where we were. I read a recent article where it was mentioned the FdB does not agree with the suggested signings mooted by senior people within the Club and they do not like the ones that he is putting forward. Of the transfer dealings that have materialised only RL-C, looks the part whilst Riedewald and Fosu-Mensa should probably be in the Development Squad to gain experience. No wonder that we are currently a joke and no signings appear to be going through although I sincerely hope that incoming transfers will take place today.

 

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MrCParrot Flag Taunton 31 Aug 17 7.57am Send a Private Message to MrCParrot Add MrCParrot as a friend

Originally posted by Rachid Rachid Rachid

V interesting cheers for posting.

No problem.

It's the training game comments that worry me most

Parrot

 


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Rachid Rachid Rachid Flag 31 Aug 17 8.02am Send a Private Message to Rachid Rachid Rachid Add Rachid Rachid Rachid as a friend

Originally posted by MrCParrot

No problem.

It's the training game comments that worry me most

Parrot

I remember seeing one or two names in the team playing Merstham in the week before the season opener and wondering whether they may have considered their inclusion a bit pointed and disrespectful. Tomkins in particular.

 

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chris123 Flag hove actually 31 Aug 17 8.24am Send a Private Message to chris123 Add chris123 as a friend

Frazier's contract was ending and he was released as far as I was aware and certainly not sold. Also I hope that none of FdB's philosophy comes as a surprise to the Palace hierarchy.

 

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Mad4palace Flag 31 Aug 17 8.38am Send a Private Message to Mad4palace Add Mad4palace as a friend

If he does fail, then I hope he does it quickly. We can't have a manager who no one in the clubs hierarchy wants, hanging on for 15 or 20 games. I wouldn't have been totally against some of the more underwhelming names we were being linked with in the summer, I'd take most of them now, something felt off from the start with De Boer.

 

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NEILLO Flag Shoreham-by-Sea 31 Aug 17 8.39am Send a Private Message to NEILLO Add NEILLO as a friend

This is a well written piece that articulates the situation as it stands today.

FDB was only appointed after a lengthy period of assessing suitable applicants.

Steve Parish will have been well aware of FDB's footballing philosophy.

I thought it a bold appointment at the time and I certainly had my reservations about whether it was the right one, but I didn't think it would turn out as badly as it has so far.

I've said it before, but CPFC is not being run in the way that is in keeping with a club in it's 5th consecutive season in the Premier League.

 


Old, Ungifted and White

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heath_eagle Flag haywards heath 31 Aug 17 8.39am Send a Private Message to heath_eagle Add heath_eagle as a friend

Very interesting thanks. It does sound as though the club, or maybe somebody within the club acting alone, is briefing against FdB. As you know more information leaks out of North Korea than leaks out of Selhurst Park.
It sounds like the club are probably negotiating his leaving package as we speak.

 

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Midlands Eagle Flag 31 Aug 17 8.54am Send a Private Message to Midlands Eagle Add Midlands Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by heath_eagle

It sounds like the club are probably negotiating his leaving package as we speak.

That will cost a few million on top of the few million that the club had to fork out to get rid of Pardew.

No wonder there is no money left for transfers

 

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dreamwaverider Flag London 31 Aug 17 9.06am Send a Private Message to dreamwaverider Add dreamwaverider as a friend

My bet is the axe will fall next week

 

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Petereagle Flag Brockley 31 Aug 17 9.06am Send a Private Message to Petereagle Add Petereagle as a friend

Originally posted by heath_eagle

Very interesting thanks. It does sound as though the club, or maybe somebody within the club acting alone, is briefing against FdB. As you know more information leaks out of North Korea than leaks out of Selhurst Park.
It sounds like the club are probably negotiating his leaving package as we speak.

Excellent article which summarises the problems at Palace and it does look like FdB is not up to the job. Nobody would be surprised if he was sacked as soon as the transfer window finishes. He jusybdoes not seem 'right' for Palace

 

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