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Stirlingsays 27 May 14 12.31pm
Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.05pm To be fair this issue is so much more complex than that. This is well worth a read for a bit of balance: [Link] That guy who wrote the piece for the Telegraph about Rahman has written three other pieces attacking him as well as producing a Dispatches documentary about him. In fact almost all of the negative media coverage of Rahman comes from one source. Personally, from what I've read, there does seem to be something slightly dodgy about his campaign, although there certainly seems to be an anti-left, anti-Islamic edge to the criticisms of him. This is a guy who won, as an independent, in a borough scoring the highest voter turn out in London. It is still a minority Muslim area so you can't put it exclusively down to that either. As for your point about him being ex-Labour, it's slightly missing the mark given that he was ousted by them in the first place! We'll have to wait and see what the recount and inquiry come back with, but from what I can see this is far from a black and white issue. Don't just believe unfounded accusations that seem to make up a lot of what the Telegraph are saying. Head in the sand from the left again. You said 'almost all' came from one source.... It isn't just the Telegraph who are concerned and negative it's the Guardian and governmental organizations and the BBC. Yeah, all those anti Islamic people....You have written the typical left wing accusation of underlying intent if people check out a Muslim....People are tired of this nonsense. Rahman is currently being investigated by the Department for Communities and Local Government. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 May 14 12.31pm

Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.05pm

To be fair this issue is so much more complex than that. This is well worth a read for a bit of balance: [Link]

That guy who wrote the piece for the Telegraph about Rahman has written three other pieces attacking him as well as producing a Dispatches documentary about him. In fact almost all of the negative media coverage of Rahman comes from one source. Personally, from what I've read, there does seem to be something slightly dodgy about his campaign, although there certainly seems to be an anti-left, anti-Islamic edge to the criticisms of him.

This is a guy who won, as an independent, in a borough scoring the highest voter turn out in London. It is still a minority Muslim area so you can't put it exclusively down to that either. As for your point about him being ex-Labour, it's slightly missing the mark given that he was ousted by them in the first place!

We'll have to wait and see what the recount and inquiry come back with, but from what I can see this is far from a black and white issue. Don't just believe unfounded accusations that seem to make up a lot of what the Telegraph are saying.

Head in the sand from the left again. You said 'almost all' came from one source.... It isn't just the Telegraph who are concerned and negative it's the Guardian and governmental organizations and the BBC.

Yeah, all those anti Islamic people....You have written the typical left wing accusation of underlying intent if people check out a Muslim....People are tired of this nonsense.

Rahman is currently being investigated by the Department for Communities and Local Government.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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taylors lovechild 27 May 14 12.37pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 27 May 2014 10.37am Quote taylors lovechild at 27 May 2014 8.09am "5) Rahman personally signed up entire families as sham members of the Labour Party to win selection as the Labour mayoral candidate. He was selected, but was then removed by Labour’s National Executive Committee, and subsequently expelled from the party" So, from what I understand he is a Muslim fundamentalist, which would put him on the right, not the left. Not that it matters. The party he chose I imagine had nothing to do with their manifesto or ideology. There lies the difference. The loons who came out of the woodwork for UKIP were basically voicing more extreme rhetoric than the more senior members. The left believe in and encourage multiculturalism. They are also hyper careful about intervening in any issue where they could be accused of racism.....This allows a lot of wiggle room for the intelligent and ambitious radical. The description of 'Muslim fundamentalist' isn't one he would advertise or admit to.....So in essence the parties of the left are a natural fit for those who wish to gain powerful positions with minimal accommodation to the national culture and practices. Essentially mate....The proof is in the eating. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 10.40am) Without knowing the whole story, it would appear he unlawfully bought his way into power then acted in a manner that no major party would allow. He may have picked Labour for the reasons you described, or it may just be they were the most likely party to win votes in his area. Either way, he clearly isn't a believer in multiculturalism....so you have that in common In all seriousness, what this election has shown me is how clueless most of us are about the EU and politics in general. Most people probably don't know: what powers the EU has, how decisions are made, how their vote affected Britains representation or what benefits it gives us (for example what is the free trade agreement.) From the UKIP side the only rational arguments I've heard for voting for UKIP is as a protest vote for the major parties inefficiencies, but then whenever I ask people what those are they just reel out the media standards without any understanding of what policies have been introduced, removed, or brought to the table. The anti-UKIP side is often not much better with simple accusations of fascism, etc. We live in a democracy in which a large swathe of the country votes on one-liners and spin without truly understanding what they're voting for or taking the time to read and find out. I wouldn't and will not vote for UKIP because I don't believe immigration is the route of all evil, I don't believe you could actually simply close the doors on immigration even if you wanted to (do you think anyone would trade with us if we refused to allow any immigrants in?) they are basically the back bench/extremists of the tory party and so stand against everything I believe in (equality, workers rights, freedom of choice, etc) plus they have created economic policy which has no realistic way of working ("scrap VAT/inheritence tax, etc""- and replace it with what?) I didn't make my mind up on this by reading the papers. I read UKIP's own policies and then saw what they were. A bunch of c***s. Hopefully what UKIP will have done is wake up the major parties into showing some real fight. I only pray that they won't listen to the ill-conceived politics that are parked in the Farrage garage.
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taylors lovechild

27 May 14 12.37pm

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Quote Stirlingsays at 27 May 2014 10.37am

Quote taylors lovechild at 27 May 2014 8.09am

"5) Rahman personally signed up entire families as sham members of the Labour Party to win selection as the Labour mayoral candidate. He was selected, but was then removed by Labour’s National Executive Committee, and subsequently expelled from the party"

So, from what I understand he is a Muslim fundamentalist, which would put him on the right, not the left. Not that it matters. The party he chose I imagine had nothing to do with their manifesto or ideology.

There lies the difference. The loons who came out of the woodwork for UKIP were basically voicing more extreme rhetoric than the more senior members.

The left believe in and encourage multiculturalism. They are also hyper careful about intervening in any issue where they could be accused of racism.....This allows a lot of wiggle room for the intelligent and ambitious radical.

The description of 'Muslim fundamentalist' isn't one he would advertise or admit to.....So in essence the parties of the left are a natural fit for those who wish to gain powerful positions with minimal accommodation to the national culture and practices.

Essentially mate....The proof is in the eating.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 10.40am)

Without knowing the whole story, it would appear he unlawfully bought his way into power then acted in a manner that no major party would allow. He may have picked Labour for the reasons you described, or it may just be they were the most likely party to win votes in his area. Either way, he clearly isn't a believer in multiculturalism....so you have that in common

In all seriousness, what this election has shown me is how clueless most of us are about the EU and politics in general. Most people probably don't know: what powers the EU has, how decisions are made, how their vote affected Britains representation or what benefits it gives us (for example what is the free trade agreement.) From the UKIP side the only rational arguments I've heard for voting for UKIP is as a protest vote for the major parties inefficiencies, but then whenever I ask people what those are they just reel out the media standards without any understanding of what policies have been introduced, removed, or brought to the table. The anti-UKIP side is often not much better with simple accusations of fascism, etc.

We live in a democracy in which a large swathe of the country votes on one-liners and spin without truly understanding what they're voting for or taking the time to read and find out.

I wouldn't and will not vote for UKIP because I don't believe immigration is the route of all evil, I don't believe you could actually simply close the doors on immigration even if you wanted to (do you think anyone would trade with us if we refused to allow any immigrants in?) they are basically the back bench/extremists of the tory party and so stand against everything I believe in (equality, workers rights, freedom of choice, etc) plus they have created economic policy which has no realistic way of working ("scrap VAT/inheritence tax, etc""- and replace it with what?)

I didn't make my mind up on this by reading the papers. I read UKIP's own policies and then saw what they were. A bunch of c***s.

Hopefully what UKIP will have done is wake up the major parties into showing some real fight. I only pray that they won't listen to the ill-conceived politics that are parked in the Farrage garage.

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serial thriller The Promised Land 27 May 14 12.48pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 27 May 2014 12.31pm Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.05pm To be fair this issue is so much more complex than that. This is well worth a read for a bit of balance: [Link] That guy who wrote the piece for the Telegraph about Rahman has written three other pieces attacking him as well as producing a Dispatches documentary about him. In fact almost all of the negative media coverage of Rahman comes from one source. Personally, from what I've read, there does seem to be something slightly dodgy about his campaign, although there certainly seems to be an anti-left, anti-Islamic edge to the criticisms of him. This is a guy who won, as an independent, in a borough scoring the highest voter turn out in London. It is still a minority Muslim area so you can't put it exclusively down to that either. As for your point about him being ex-Labour, it's slightly missing the mark given that he was ousted by them in the first place! We'll have to wait and see what the recount and inquiry come back with, but from what I can see this is far from a black and white issue. Don't just believe unfounded accusations that seem to make up a lot of what the Telegraph are saying. Head in the sand from the left again. You said 'almost all' came from one source.... It isn't just the Telegraph who are concerned and negative it's the Guardian and governmental organizations and the BBC. Yeah, all those anti Islamic people....You have written the typical left wing accusation of underlying intent if people check out a Muslim....People are tired of this nonsense. Rahman is currently being investigated by the Department for Communities and Local Government. Here are links to the same journalist at the same newspaper smearing the same politician for the same allegations: [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] And that's just in the past two months. One would almost think it's a kind of personal grudge from the obsession he seems to hold, I'm not one for putting 'shagged' and 'missus' in the same sentence but I wouldn't be surprised if it applied here. Meanwhile, the Guardian's piece is at least slightly more balanced, using the word 'alleged' rather than the inflammatory and quite possibly libellous rhetoric in the Torygraph: [Link] Gotta say from what I've read of his policies he seems a very efficient and encouraging politician. I'll wait till the enquiry returns with its results before condemning him but if he's innocent Andrew Gilligan has a lot to answer for. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 27 May 14 12.48pm

Send a Private Message to serial thriller

Quote Stirlingsays at 27 May 2014 12.31pm

Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.05pm

To be fair this issue is so much more complex than that. This is well worth a read for a bit of balance: [Link]

Yeah, all those anti Islamic people....You have written the typical left wing accusation of underlying intent if people check out a Muslim....People are tired of this nonsense.

Rahman is currently being investigated by the Department for Communities and Local Government.

Here are links to the same journalist at the same newspaper smearing the same politician for the same allegations:

[Link]

And that's just in the past two months. One would almost think it's a kind of personal grudge from the obsession he seems to hold, I'm not one for putting 'shagged' and 'missus' in the same sentence but I wouldn't be surprised if it applied here.

Meanwhile, the Guardian's piece is at least slightly more balanced, using the word 'alleged' rather than the inflammatory and quite possibly libellous rhetoric in the Torygraph: [Link]

Gotta say from what I've read of his policies he seems a very efficient and encouraging politician. I'll wait till the enquiry returns with its results before condemning him but if he's innocent Andrew Gilligan has a lot to answer for.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Stirlingsays 27 May 14 1.01pm
Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.48pm Here are links to the same journalist at the same newspaper smearing the same politician for the same allegations: [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] And that's just in the past two months. One would almost think it's a kind of personal grudge from the obsession he seems to hold, I'm not one for putting 'shagged' and 'missus' in the same sentence but I wouldn't be surprised if it applied here. Meanwhile, the Guardian's piece is at least slightly more balanced, using the word 'alleged' rather than the inflammatory and quite possibly libellous rhetoric in the Torygraph: [Link] Gotta say from what I've read of his policies he seems a very efficient and encouraging politician. I'll wait till the enquiry returns with its results before condemning him but if he's innocent Andrew Gilligan has a lot to answer for. You said almost all.....It isn't, it's criticism over multiple organizations. This journalist is looking for corruption....Seems find to me. It's people like you who sling mud and suggest there is something sinister about it.....Like I said, you're the reason people like Rahman choose the Labour party....Because people like you have the 'race card' permanently up as cover for them. I think you are deluded if you feel this guy is an 'encouraging politician'......If you stuck your head in that sand any further you might just end up turning into a proper ostrich. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.02pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 May 14 1.01pm

Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.48pm

Here are links to the same journalist at the same newspaper smearing the same politician for the same allegations:

[Link]

Meanwhile, the Guardian's piece is at least slightly more balanced, using the word 'alleged' rather than the inflammatory and quite possibly libellous rhetoric in the Torygraph: [Link]

You said almost all.....It isn't, it's criticism over multiple organizations.

This journalist is looking for corruption....Seems find to me. It's people like you who sling mud and suggest there is something sinister about it.....Like I said, you're the reason people like Rahman choose the Labour party....Because people like you have the 'race card' permanently up as cover for them.

I think you are deluded if you feel this guy is an 'encouraging politician'......If you stuck your head in that sand any further you might just end up turning into a proper ostrich.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.02pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 May 14 1.07pm
[Link] UKIP founder upset about party trajectory...
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 27 May 14 1.07pm

[Link]

UKIP founder upset about party trajectory...

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Stirlingsays 27 May 14 1.08pm
Quote taylors lovechild at 27 May 2014 12.37pm Without knowing the whole story, it would appear he unlawfully bought his way into power then acted in a manner that no major party would allow. He may have picked Labour for the reasons you described, or it may just be they were the most likely party to win votes in his area. Either way, he clearly isn't a believer in multiculturalism....so you have that in common In all seriousness, what this election has shown me is how clueless most of us are about the EU and politics in general. Most people probably don't know: what powers the EU has, how decisions are made, how their vote affected Britains representation or what benefits it gives us (for example what is the free trade agreement.) From the UKIP side the only rational arguments I've heard for voting for UKIP is as a protest vote for the major parties inefficiencies, but then whenever I ask people what those are they just reel out the media standards without any understanding of what policies have been introduced, removed, or brought to the table. The anti-UKIP side is often not much better with simple accusations of fascism, etc. We live in a democracy in which a large swathe of the country votes on one-liners and spin without truly understanding what they're voting for or taking the time to read and find out. I wouldn't and will not vote for UKIP because I don't believe immigration is the route of all evil, I don't believe you could actually simply close the doors on immigration even if you wanted to (do you think anyone would trade with us if we refused to allow any immigrants in?) they are basically the back bench/extremists of the tory party and so stand against everything I believe in (equality, workers rights, freedom of choice, etc) plus they have created economic policy which has no realistic way of working ("scrap VAT/inheritence tax, etc""- and replace it with what?) I didn't make my mind up on this by reading the papers. I read UKIP's own policies and then saw what they were. A bunch of c***s. Hopefully what UKIP will have done is wake up the major parties into showing some real fight. I only pray that they won't listen to the ill-conceived politics that are parked in the Farrage garage. You say you're read Ukip's policies and say that they want to stop immigration........What? They want controlled immigration no one in Ukip is saying no one can come in.....What are you on about? You blame people for not knowing enough about politics before voting and then you show that you clearly don't know or care about knowing Ukip's declared policies before you mischaracterise them. You are the type of person you yourself are criticizing. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.09pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 May 14 1.08pm

Quote taylors lovechild at 27 May 2014 12.37pm

We live in a democracy in which a large swathe of the country votes on one-liners and spin without truly understanding what they're voting for or taking the time to read and find out.

I didn't make my mind up on this by reading the papers. I read UKIP's own policies and then saw what they were. A bunch of c***s.

Hopefully what UKIP will have done is wake up the major parties into showing some real fight. I only pray that they won't listen to the ill-conceived politics that are parked in the Farrage garage.

You say you're read Ukip's policies and say that they want to stop immigration........What?

They want controlled immigration no one in Ukip is saying no one can come in.....What are you on about?

You blame people for not knowing enough about politics before voting and then you show that you clearly don't know or care about knowing Ukip's declared policies before you mischaracterise them.

You are the type of person you yourself are criticizing.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.09pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 27 May 14 1.10pm
Stirling, do you think maternity pay should be a right? Did you vote UKIP to 'stick 2 fingers up to the establishment'?
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nickgusset

Shizzlehurst 27 May 14 1.10pm

Stirling, do you think maternity pay should be a right?
Did you vote UKIP to 'stick 2 fingers up to the establishment'?

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 27 May 14 1.29pm
Quote Kermit8 at 27 May 2014 12.30pm I've yet to meet a muslim or jew who hasn't been anything less than amiable, gentle and friendly. Can't say the same for Catholics and Church of England/Protestant types. Because I've met many more of the latter of course but still... Yes, but aren't you a 'house husband', Kermie? Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 27 May 14 1.29pm

Quote Kermit8 at 27 May 2014 12.30pm

I've yet to meet a muslim or jew who hasn't been anything less than amiable, gentle and friendly.

Can't say the same for Catholics and Church of England/Protestant types.

Because I've met many more of the latter of course but still...

Yes, but aren't you a 'house husband', Kermie?

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 27 May 14 1.33pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 May 2014 1.07pm [Link] UKIP founder upset about party trajectory... Sounds like a bitter little man. I'm talking about Alan Sked, Prof of International History. Only people who have to take notice of him to pass LSE degree modules take any notice of him, or the desperate and illogical Guardian editors. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 27 May 14 1.33pm

Quote nickgusset at 27 May 2014 1.07pm

[Link]

UKIP founder upset about party trajectory...

Sounds like a bitter little man. I'm talking about Alan Sked, Prof of International History. Only people who have to take notice of him to pass LSE degree modules take any notice of him, or the desperate and illogical Guardian editors.

COYP

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Stirlingsays 27 May 14 1.46pm
Quote nickgusset at 27 May 2014 1.10pm Stirling, do you think maternity pay should be a right? Did you vote UKIP to 'stick 2 fingers up to the establishment'? Nick, in my last post I asked you questions which you didn't respond to.....Now you're asking me questions....Maybe you missed the post. If I thought Ukip had a serious chance of getting in I might consider their other policies.....Though I hear that those policies are going to be different anyway for next year. Anyway, as a protest vote on the EU they were the most logical party to vote for to get that two fingered message across. Really, I'm a bit undecided who I'm going to vote for at the main one. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.47pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

27 May 14 1.46pm

Quote nickgusset at 27 May 2014 1.10pm

Stirling, do you think maternity pay should be a right?
Did you vote UKIP to 'stick 2 fingers up to the establishment'?

Nick, in my last post I asked you questions which you didn't respond to.....Now you're asking me questions....Maybe you missed the post.

If I thought Ukip had a serious chance of getting in I might consider their other policies.....Though I hear that those policies are going to be different anyway for next year.

Anyway, as a protest vote on the EU they were the most logical party to vote for to get that two fingered message across.

Really, I'm a bit undecided who I'm going to vote for at the main one.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.47pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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serial thriller The Promised Land 27 May 14 1.47pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 27 May 2014 1.01pm Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.48pm Here are links to the same journalist at the same newspaper smearing the same politician for the same allegations: [Link] [Link] [Link] [Link] And that's just in the past two months. One would almost think it's a kind of personal grudge from the obsession he seems to hold, I'm not one for putting 'shagged' and 'missus' in the same sentence but I wouldn't be surprised if it applied here. Meanwhile, the Guardian's piece is at least slightly more balanced, using the word 'alleged' rather than the inflammatory and quite possibly libellous rhetoric in the Torygraph: [Link] Gotta say from what I've read of his policies he seems a very efficient and encouraging politician. I'll wait till the enquiry returns with its results before condemning him but if he's innocent Andrew Gilligan has a lot to answer for. You said almost all.....It isn't, it's criticism over multiple organizations. This journalist is looking for corruption....Seems find to me. It's people like you who sling mud and suggest there is something sinister about it.....Like I said, you're the reason people like Rahman choose the Labour party....Because people like you have the 'race card' permanently up as cover for them. I think you are deluded if you feel this guy is an 'encouraging politician'......If you stuck your head in that sand any further you might just end up turning into a proper ostrich. Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.02pm) The Telegraph is portraying it in their distinctively assertive and manipulative way unlike the other media outlets reporting on it though, by refusing to use little words like alleged which can lead to serious repercussions if their opinions are found to be false. I don't really get your caricature of the left and to be honest I don't really want to. We seem to be one big out of touch monster to you but here's the thing: my stance on this is that I'll wait until the investigation is finished before reaching a final judgement. What I object to is people like yourself and the Telegraph who talk as if he's already been found guilty. If that's the way you want to issue out justice, perhaps you should give Shariah Law a go. If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4
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serial thriller

The Promised Land 27 May 14 1.47pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 27 May 2014 1.01pm

Quote serial thriller at 27 May 2014 12.48pm

Here are links to the same journalist at the same newspaper smearing the same politician for the same allegations:

[Link]

Meanwhile, the Guardian's piece is at least slightly more balanced, using the word 'alleged' rather than the inflammatory and quite possibly libellous rhetoric in the Torygraph: [Link]

You said almost all.....It isn't, it's criticism over multiple organizations.

I think you are deluded if you feel this guy is an 'encouraging politician'......If you stuck your head in that sand any further you might just end up turning into a proper ostrich.

Edited by Stirlingsays (27 May 2014 1.02pm)

The Telegraph is portraying it in their distinctively assertive and manipulative way unlike the other media outlets reporting on it though, by refusing to use little words like alleged which can lead to serious repercussions if their opinions are found to be false.

I don't really get your caricature of the left and to be honest I don't really want to. We seem to be one big out of touch monster to you but here's the thing: my stance on this is that I'll wait until the investigation is finished before reaching a final judgement. What I object to is people like yourself and the Telegraph who talk as if he's already been found guilty. If that's the way you want to issue out justice, perhaps you should give Shariah Law a go.

If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4

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Kermit8 Hevon 27 May 14 1.50pm
Quote Cucking Funt at 27 May 2014 1.29pm Quote Kermit8 at 27 May 2014 12.30pm I've yet to meet a muslim or jew who hasn't been anything less than amiable, gentle and friendly. Can't say the same for Catholics and Church of England/Protestant types. Because I've met many more of the latter of course but still... Yes, but aren't you a 'house husband', Kermie? I also perform circumcisions and arrange marriages as well as renovation and nanny duties. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8