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Israel / Palestine
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 Stirlingsays  03 Aug 14 7.00pm |
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Quote SloveniaDave at 03 Aug 2014 6.33pm
That's hard, seeing as you provided no justification whatsoever for your sweeping and absurd generalisation in the first place. What exactly am I supposed to counter? You made an unsupported allegation (again) which condemns anyone who disagrees with you as complicit in killings which is both stupid and offensive. I think you confuse facts and sensible argument with you own, prejudiced and ignorant opinions which you spout, presumably in the innocent belief that only you know the real answers. You appear not to understand that debate is not simply you mouthing your extremely narrow, prejudiced and inexperienced view of the world and expecting everyone will agree with you. You bore me senseless but, if you post more nonsense, then of course I will counter it - not to try and persuade you as I do not believe you have the capacity to listen and learn, but to provide some semblance of balance and knock down some of your more outrageous opinions.
You are most welcome to oppose my views. Again ignoring the amusing insults I looked to see what rationalisations you presented. Unfortunately after reading through five paragraphs I didn't find one argument against the fact that not having the current barrier doesn't lead to more Israeli deaths. You just ridicule my 'unsupported allegation'. Is it unsupported? From September 2000 to mid-2005, hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings and terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians killed more nearly 1,000 innocent people. Since construction of the fence began, the number of attacks has declined by more than 90%. I don't really think you know much about the issue you've replied on and instead you appear to have replied singularly for the purpose of insulting me. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Aug 2014 7.10pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Seth  On a pale blue dot 03 Aug 14 7.07pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 7.00pm
Again ignoring the amusing insults I looked to see what renationalisation you presented.
"You can feel the stadium jumping. The stadium is actually physically moving up and down" |
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| Stirlingsays 03 Aug 14 7.09pm |
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Quote Seth at 03 Aug 2014 7.07pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 7.00pm
Again ignoring the amusing insults I looked to see what renationalisation you presented.
Nice one Seth.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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SloveniaDave  Tirana, Albania 03 Aug 14 7.14pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 7.00pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 03 Aug 2014 6.33pm
That's hard, seeing as you provided no justification whatsoever for your sweeping and absurd generalisation in the first place. What exactly am I supposed to counter? You made an unsupported allegation (again) which condemns anyone who disagrees with you as complicit in killings which is both stupid and offensive. I think you confuse facts and sensible argument with you own, prejudiced and ignorant opinions which you spout, presumably in the innocent belief that only you know the real answers. You appear not to understand that debate is not simply you mouthing your extremely narrow, prejudiced and inexperienced view of the world and expecting everyone will agree with you. You bore me senseless but, if you post more nonsense, then of course I will counter it - not to try and persuade you as I do not believe you have the capacity to listen and learn, but to provide some semblance of balance and knock down some of your more outrageous opinions.
You are most welcome to oppose my views. Again ignoring the amusing insults I looked to see what renationalisation you presented. Unfortunately after reading through five paragraphs I didn't find one argument against the fact that not having the current barrier doesn't lead to more Israeli deaths. You just ridicule my 'unsupported allegation'. Is it unsupported? From September 2000 to mid-2005, hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings and terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians killed more nearly 1,000 innocent people. Since construction of the fence began, the number of attacks has declined by more than 90%. I don't really think you know much about the issue you've replied on and instead you appear to have replied singularly for the purpose of insulting me. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Aug 2014 7.05pm)
I do not claim to be an expert in the Israeli/Palestinian issue, hence my comments are largely much more circumspect and observational, rather than judgemental and over-simplistic prejudice.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive) |
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| Stirlingsays 03 Aug 14 7.37pm |
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Quote SloveniaDave at 03 Aug 2014 7.14pm
Not insulting, its not worth it, but devaluing and undermining your prejudiced ignorance, absolutely. At least now you have felt obliged to provide some very simplistic statistics to support your blanket insult aimed at everyone who disagrees with you. I do not claim to be an expert in the Israeli/Palestinian issue, hence my comments are largely much more circumspect and observational, rather than judgemental and over-simplistic prejudice.
But Dave....When you make these claims you do need to actually provide content to counter what I'm actually saying. Saying you are countering my arguments and making claims for yourself doesn't actually amount to anything without content. I would have thought that facts concerning the barrier were quite well known to anyone interested in this topic. It's totally valid to question me on that....though the insults are not required. You stated I made an 'allegation'....I gave you some stats that you say are were 'simplistic'....In what way Dave? Would you like more? Links and so on? You originally decided to call my opinion 'ludicrous'. Yet it appears this was done from a position of not actually knowing what you are talking about. Again, I state that you are just replying with the aim of insulting, with not actually contributing to the debate.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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pefwin  Where you have to have an English ... 03 Aug 14 7.46pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 7.09pm
Quote Seth at 03 Aug 2014 7.07pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 7.00pm
Again ignoring the amusing insults I looked to see what renationalisation you presented.
Nice one Seth. Can't spell... what comes around goes around. I'm interested in what isn't on the Israeli mainland? Possibly Cyprus? That is stretching it even for Zionists.
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 03 Aug 14 7.47pm |
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There's definitely an anti Palestine vein running through hol.
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| wwarr009 03 Aug 14 7.48pm |
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I don't want to sound stupid but I don't really understand the situation
Beans beans there good for your heart, the more you eat the more you fart, the more you fart the more you eat the more you sit on the toilet seat |
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| Stirlingsays 03 Aug 14 7.50pm |
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Quote pefwin at 03 Aug 2014 7.46pm
Can't spell... what comes around goes around. Pefwin I didn't actually criticise your spelling! I think maybe you misinterpreted something perhaps. Personally I'm happy to be corrected, as it keeps us all on our toes.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Palacetinian Surrey Fam 03 Aug 14 7.50pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 7.00pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 03 Aug 2014 6.33pm
That's hard, seeing as you provided no justification whatsoever for your sweeping and absurd generalisation in the first place. What exactly am I supposed to counter? You made an unsupported allegation (again) which condemns anyone who disagrees with you as complicit in killings which is both stupid and offensive. I think you confuse facts and sensible argument with you own, prejudiced and ignorant opinions which you spout, presumably in the innocent belief that only you know the real answers. You appear not to understand that debate is not simply you mouthing your extremely narrow, prejudiced and inexperienced view of the world and expecting everyone will agree with you. You bore me senseless but, if you post more nonsense, then of course I will counter it - not to try and persuade you as I do not believe you have the capacity to listen and learn, but to provide some semblance of balance and knock down some of your more outrageous opinions.
You are most welcome to oppose my views. Again ignoring the amusing insults I looked to see what rationalisations you presented. Unfortunately after reading through five paragraphs I didn't find one argument against the fact that not having the current barrier doesn't lead to more Israeli deaths. You just ridicule my 'unsupported allegation'. Is it unsupported? From September 2000 to mid-2005, hundreds of Palestinian suicide bombings and terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians killed more nearly 1,000 innocent people. Since construction of the fence began, the number of attacks has declined by more than 90%. I don't really think you know much about the issue you've replied on and instead you appear to have replied singularly for the purpose of insulting me. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Aug 2014 7.10pm)
If you really believe the wall is solely responsible for a 90% reduction in suicide bombing then you are mistaken. Did Israeli apartheid wall really stop suicide bombings?
Supporting Crystal Palace since 19.45 on 29th August 1972 (approximately)! |
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| SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 03 Aug 14 7.56pm |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 03 Aug 2014 7.37pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 03 Aug 2014 7.14pm
Not insulting, its not worth it, but devaluing and undermining your prejudiced ignorance, absolutely. At least now you have felt obliged to provide some very simplistic statistics to support your blanket insult aimed at everyone who disagrees with you. I do not claim to be an expert in the Israeli/Palestinian issue, hence my comments are largely much more circumspect and observational, rather than judgemental and over-simplistic prejudice.
But Dave....When you make these claims you do need to actually provide content to counter what I'm actually saying. Saying you are countering my arguments and making claims for yourself doesn't actually amount to anything without content. I would have thought that facts concerning the barrier were quite well known to anyone interested in this topic. It's totally valid to question me on that....though the insults are not required. You stated I made an 'allegation'....I gave you some stats that you say are were 'simplistic'....In what way Dave? Would you like more? Links and so on? You originally decided to call my opinion 'ludicrous'. Yet it appears this was done from a position of not actually knowing what you are talking about. Again, I state that you are just replying with the aim of insulting, with not actually contributing to the debate.
You made an entirely unsubstantiated allegation that everyone who opposes the building of the wall is condoning the killing of Israelis. After being pushed, you have now provided some very basic statistics which show that the killings have reduced since the wall was built. I doubt anyone would deny that building the wall has reduced killings, at least in the short term, but to state that people who are opposed to building the wall are condoning the killings is utter nonsense. Has it occurred to you that building the wall may be a very short-sighted solution which, whilst reducing casualties in the short term, may actually provoke and prolong the conflict and ultimately increase the number of casualties? Of course no one knows the answer to that question, but your initial statement was simplistic, arrogant and insulting to everyone who disagreed with you (along with many other comments on this thread an elsewhere). As I have said to you before, I think you should stop pontificating for a while and actually read up a bit on things first so that you could make a more informed and valuable contribution to the debate, if that is what you wish to do. If you do not have the patience to actually sit and learn, then a less arrogant tone to your posts would, I am sure, be appreciated by the majority on here. As it is, you come over simply as the pub boor who thinks that, if they say things loudly and confidently enough, then people will believe you. Edited by SloveniaDave (03 Aug 2014 7.57pm)
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive) |
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| Stirlingsays 03 Aug 14 8.06pm |
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Quote Palacetinian at 03 Aug 2014 7.50pm
Really Stirling? It's you that trots out Israeli propaganda all the time despite all the evidence that others here have posted in reply. If you really believe the wall is solely responsible for a 90% reduction in suicide bombing then you are mistaken. Did Israeli apartheid wall really stop suicide bombings?
This done from a website called, 'electronicintifada.net'.....Does that statement qualify as self parody? Are statistics Israeli propaganda now? Some Wiki links on deaths from suicide bombers which show the massise declines from 2002 onwards. In the references for the two you have two non Israeli sources. It is very clear. 452 in 2002 when the barrier was built to 9 in 2010....Hardly any now. It is certainly true that militants could increase this number but they quickly found out that attacking via this method was far less effective. In terms of reducing Israeli civilian deaths the barrier has been a huge success.....though I recognise the problems associated with it. In terms of arguing against this....perhaps it is you who are listening to propaganda. Edited by Stirlingsays (03 Aug 2014 8.30pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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