This idea that there is some kind of dark side or danger that in some way makes the vaccine more concerning than getting covid , is the Alex Jones style angle in my view.

There is no secret movement to silence people saying that the vaccine impacted them negatively, and I hope certainly think that if people have been impacted to the extent that countless thousands are ill months later we would and should get to hear about it. As I say, there is a reason that many certainly do have long covid, and that there isn't huge visible group of those in a similar situation due to the vaccine.

While with anything there will be side effects, all in all the vaccine is clearly as safe as we could have hoped for, and vastly safer than getting covid. You seem to have viewed that you made the right decision by not getting vaccinated on account that you caught covid and weren't terribly ill or hospitalised. By all measures it was still the wrong decision to make really. A political decision, not a health one. As such you unfortunately possibly more inclined to overly humour those who would happily slap the needle out of grannies arm . Though I accept that you are personally in favour of the elderly getting vaccinated!

Edited by BlueJay (02 Dec 2021 6.45pm)

If I bet that I won't roll a six and one comes up I've not made the 'wrong choice', I've been unlucky. Probability doesn't involve being right every time, it relates to the likelihood of something happening. As we have very little reason to believe that there is any significant health risk from vaccination, and we know it reduces the likelihood of hospitalisation very significantly in all groups, so getting vaccinated is the sensible decision to make in comparison to actually catching covid, especially where there are existing heath issues.

We can make tea leaf reading type 'I know my body' arguments but ultimately with a new virus that we have very little protection against that or reason to believe that the vaccine against it will cause us more problems. That was true a year back and it's true now. But as I say people can do as they wish.

Edited by BlueJay (02 Dec 2021 5.53pm)

I largely view this as a negative because I think it lurches too far towards government control over peoples lives. These vaccines reduce the likelihood of serious illness they don't stop enough people catching covid to stop it spreading - so it will still spread everywhere. The only difference being that the vaccinated should get a 'softer landing' if they catch covid. In my view if say a few percentage of those eligible choose not to get vaccinated they are primarily impacting their own health prospects, and so we should let them get on with it.

That and there are some valid concerns with pharmaceutical companies getting a 'lock in' like this rather than people opting into it out of choice. There is quite a profound difference in those two situations, and while I do believe we've seen the best of what we're capable of with this roll-out, these are still ultimately profit making corporations akin to the military in how much of a 'machine' they are. Look around at the cost of drugs, these are not 'for people' organisations and so the ability to 'opt-in' to vaccines is very important in my view in terms of being able to live a normal day to day life.

Edited by BlueJay (02 Dec 2021 6.03pm)

Just another angle that I hadn't considered may have happened (possibly 'again').

[Link] - Some experts suggest Omicron variant may have evolved in an animal host

The proposed idea is that a human may have infected an animal with covid-19 (which we know can happen) and that it may have then mutated in the animal before being passed back.

Just highlighting it as a possibility. I guess its 'same difference' in that its all something we end up lumbered with. Just maybe highlights the scope of possibilities that may been set into motion through this pandemic.

My "standard of proof" is no different to anyone who puts evidence above assertion.

Spreading unsubstantiated, wild assertions that scare people away from having a vaccine that could prevent their child catching covid and passing it on to their grandparents is beyond irresponsible.

By now, there is a great deal of "other" information. This is merely either a statistical anomaly, or a season influence. Either way it has not been considered important, because nothing has been done.

Regulatory capture is primarily a conspiracy theory. There are far too many checks and balances involved with the vaccines for it to be taken seriously. No-one involved in the science plays with people's lives. Of course there are commercial interests involved, but from everything I have seen they have behaved very responsibly. With the degree of scrutiny they are under, the slightest transgression would put them out of business.

Do you understand conspiracy theory, because it seems to me you are promoting one?

Edited by Wisbech Eagle (02 Dec 2021 6.57pm)

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

“Forced on society” not forced on people that don’t want it.

What an evil c*** you are.