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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Dec 21 10.48am

Originally posted by Tim Gypsy Hill '64

How the human race made it as far as even the 20th century, let alone now, without vaccines must really slip most peoples minds. We live with viruses. We need viruses. They are a part of the whole ecosystem. Eliminate them, and the system will collapse. We need to live alongside them.

Like those annoying bugs and slugs in your garden, the do an essential job.

Did your type this out on your way back from getting your booster jab?

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Dec 21 10.51am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle


Masks?

[Link]

Whenever reading an opinion piece, it's necessary to consider whose opinion it is, and who is prepared to publish it.

Spiked could, most kindly, be described as "conservative and libertarian". It has a history of taking up anti-environmental positions. It has been funded by the Charles Koch Foundation.

Tim Black is associated in that he is deputy editor of Spiked. He also opines in many journals, usually from fairly controversial positions. As he does here. The sub heading reads:-

"Mask obsessives just want to signal their superiority over the selfish, germ-spreading others."

That's plainly untrue. There aren't any "mask obsessives" that I am aware of. There are those who try to follow the rules, and understand why they are in place, and those who don't. That some people's attitude comes over as selfish, seems pretty clear and undeniable, but in calling it out trying to establish "superiority" as the motivation is nonsense. Acceptance and compliance is.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Dec 21 10.52am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

Sure. I don’t like it but I wear one whenever required, which in Scotland has been pretty much everywhere all the time.
Not saying this article reflects on any of the fine users of this site but there are some who are quite sanctimonious about it despite the fact that after two years lots of them seem incapable of putting one on properly.

Yes, I've always found it to be something just to get on with in the most effective and useful way possible really (a good quality mask) rather than overthink or make a boring identity issue either way. Same with vaccination really. I view it as important, as thankfully do most, but if someone is an ardent anti vaxxer (or decides against for another reason) there's not much of anything that I can do about it. Enough people have got on board that it has made a difference, and will hopefully continue to do so.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of us get the new variant if its different enough, but hopefully we will now have enough B and T cell protection that hospitals aren't swamped should we have another significant wave coming our way. That's all we can hope for really I think.

Edited by BlueJay (02 Dec 2021 10.54am)

 

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Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Dec 21 10.59am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Whenever reading an opinion piece, it's necessary to consider whose opinion it is, and who is prepared to publish it.

Spiked could, most kindly, be described as "conservative and libertarian". It has a history of taking up anti-environmental positions. It has been funded by the Charles Koch Foundation.

Tim Black is associated in that he is deputy editor of Spiked. He also opines in many journals, usually from fairly controversial positions. As he does here. The sub heading reads:-

"Mask obsessives just want to signal their superiority over the selfish, germ-spreading others."

That's plainly untrue. There aren't any "mask obsessives" that I am aware of. There are those who try to follow the rules, and understand why they are in place, and those who don't. That some people's attitude comes over as selfish, seems pretty clear and undeniable, but in calling it out trying to establish "superiority" as the motivation is nonsense. Acceptance and compliance is.

As previously stated it does no harm to read opinions with which you don’t agree - provided they’re not too extreme, I guess, but that’s in the eye of the beholder.
As regards “obsessives” I’ve met two or three who are almost paranoid to the extent you fear for their well being when this is finally over.

 

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Wisbech Eagle Flag Truro Cornwall 02 Dec 21 11.06am Send a Private Message to Wisbech Eagle Add Wisbech Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

As previously stated it does no harm to read opinions with which you don’t agree - provided they’re not too extreme, I guess, but that’s in the eye of the beholder.
As regards “obsessives” I’ve met two or three who are almost paranoid to the extent you fear for their well being when this is finally over.

I agree with reading contra opinions. Always best to know how others think.

The only "obsessive" I know is autistic and obsessed about a huge variety of things, other than masks. Unable to work, he follows the same routines every day. Perhaps your contacts are too? There is a lot of undiagnosed autism.

 


For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

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Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Dec 21 11.07am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Yes, I've always found it to be something just to get on with in the most effective and useful way possible really (a good quality mask) rather than overthink or make a boring identity issue either way. Same with vaccination really. I view it as important, as thankfully do most, but if someone is an ardent anti vaxxer (or decides against for another reason) there's not much of anything that I can do about it. Enough people have got on board that it has made a difference, and will hopefully continue to do so.

To be honest it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of us get the new variant if its different enough, but hopefully we will now have enough B and T cell protection that hospitals aren't swamped should we have another significant wave coming our way. That's all we can hope for really I think.

Edited by BlueJay (02 Dec 2021 10.54am)

There’s also a chance that a lot of people have already had one of the variants and been asymptomatic without being tested at the time. Hopefully we’ll get to the stage where this is treated like a flu epidemic when it’s horrible if you catch it, and potentially life threatening, but everyday life goes on.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Dec 21 11.09am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

It looks as though the more challenging if you like (with higher transmission) variants are coming from areas with low vaccination rates.

In Kent when that district near Chatham or wherever had huge amounts of positive cases, and wherever in the south of the African continent. India with the Delta variant. Botswana possibly. It was found in South Africa, not necessarily mutated in South Africa.

Yes I did have that thought, that really we only ever see where we spot something taking hold, not always where it originates.

It does appear that many variants spring up in those less likely to be able to fight off the virus, so logically that could include the unvaccinated more than vaccinated, but also certainly the immunocompromised undergoing cancer treatment, HIV, hell even those on transplant drugs perhaps.

It's hard to tell how many more chapters of this story we will face, but I concur with many and the science that vaccination has and will hopefully continue to cushion the blow of variants and allow us a soft landing if / when we catch it (which will then in turn act as a 'natural' booster but without the worst consequences).

The end game logically should be a variant that spreads very fast and yet is more mild. Hopefully despite the current concerns we will approach something akin to that prior to many more curveballs.

Edited by BlueJay (02 Dec 2021 11.27am)

 

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Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Dec 21 11.10am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I agree with reading contra opinions. Always best to know how others think.

The only "obsessive" I know is autistic and obsessed about a huge variety of things, other than masks. Unable to work, he follows the same routines every day. Perhaps your contacts are too? There is a lot of undiagnosed autism.

That’s possible but they haven’t shown any signs before - not that I’d really know what to look for. It’s more likely they’re suffering the after effects of lockdown which badly affected some people.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 02 Dec 21 11.15am Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I agree with reading contra opinions. Always best to know how others think.

The only "obsessive" I know is autistic and obsessed about a huge variety of things, other than masks. Unable to work, he follows the same routines every day. Perhaps your contacts are too? There is a lot of undiagnosed autism.

I spoke to someone this week saying ‘’Omicron is DEFINITELY going to be worse’’ after and during me telling her nobody knows. She then lied that her daughter’s meeting at work had everyone testing positive for Omicron. It’s got to her. The restrictions, not Omicron.

 


COYP

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Dec 21 11.16am

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

There’s also a chance that a lot of people have already had one of the variants and been asymptomatic without being tested at the time. Hopefully we’ll get to the stage where this is treated like a flu epidemic when it’s horrible if you catch it, and potentially life threatening, but everyday life goes on.

Certainly. Many of the new Omicron cases that were found were asymptomatic. Hopefully that combined with largely mild cases is the best case. It may seem worse that it is and overwhelm hospitals if vast numbers (compared to Delta) catch it as once, but hopefully that won't happen, or if it does will be a brief window of worsening before improving. It's so hard to know right now.

The morbid reality of course is that the most vulnerable are often picked off by illness, and so I would think and hope that the numbers of the past will not return and that as you say it's viewed in a flu-like way down the line.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Dec 21 11.23am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

We had an exchange yesterday which went;

Me: "You say that all you'd need is evidence, but when that is presented, you would simply refute the conclusion, or the source, or the scientist, or the media outlet presenting it."

You: "I don't think that's particularly fair"

When a pharma company tells us X pill is a painkiller, or helps reduce the affects of allergies by x%, we don't view that as something to distrust, but when the same companies talk about another one of their products, it's not to be trusted.

So what you are saying is that you should just trust the claims of companies?

History is littered with examples where that wasn't a good idea...regulations have certainly disincentivised outright lies but certainly not false claims.

When a company tells you that X pill is a painkiller and you take the product you can directly tell how effective that is....many companies make claims about their products which are less than accurate and the marketplace finds their level through consumer experience.

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I don't agree at all with your contention re mixing; most unvaccinated people I have come across are not more cautious - they simply don't recognise the threat and do whatever they want as a result.

Are you sure that's not confirmation bias? Ok, sure those people exist but I would say it's a subset myself. I'm unvaccinated and I certainly recognise that there's a threat....though that's something I'd still recognise even after a vaccine.

Then again, unless your immune system is weak the risk to life is low.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Dec 2021 11.26am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Dec 21 11.25am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend


Not for me but anyone needing some extra cash…


[Link]

 

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