I am with you on this one Wisbech.
I am currently on a train and it is 50/50 masks worn.
Females in my carriage being the worst culprits.

I would hope that we don't see numbers of deaths that match what we've seen before and had the same thought as to why that might be.

It could all come down to the level of protection the vaccines (and conveyed B and T cell immunity) still have against Omicron in the masses of elderly who dodged a bullet due to being vaccinated. They are the most likely to have immune systems that flag on all fronts immune wise, so could reasonably be expected to be those primarily impacted by any changes to the virus.

There's no real logical reason for adults not to get vaccinated, and every health problem people have tried to push due to it, are all far more prevalent in those very same age groups when they (inevitably) get a natural infection. It's somewhat annoying that Joe Rogan and the like do not also convey that fact when they push reasons to be wary of the vaccine.

In the months after covid I'd say it's fair enough to be wary, but as they tick by that argument falls away too. Still, people make their own decisions in life and I'm not really in favour of endless checks at the door to enter environments like pubs where viruses are likely to spread fairly freely no matter what steps are taken. Travel restrictions are fair enough though. If people want to adopt an approach that is more about the self than community, having to opt out of the wider world its a fitting result of that.

The position on masks is highly debatable yet the state has decided to fall completely down one side of that debate to cover their arse and for the manipulative behavioral reasons stated previously.

Giving out advice is one thing and I have no issues with that.
However, the individual shouldn't be compelled...it comes down to state issued mandates and enforcement.

I view this similarly in both aspects you cover here, regardless of whether it's a 'need' or 'choice'....I think you previously agreed that lockdowns (outside of the initial one) were a mistake.

I think for the elderly going to pubs and social events....while I tend to agree with you on an advice level...there are the two realities of personal choice and mental health.

The liberty aspect is a well trodden argument but I often think the mental health one is often overlooked. What is actually safer for individuals.....there have been a lot of repercussions from keeping people cooped up in their houses and in many instances it wouldn't have been their best option.

I don't think there is a 'one size fits all' best position....should the state be our nanny? Personally I don't think is realistically sensible or indeed practical....though I know that plenty of people want to offload all responsibilities onto the state (taxpayer). I think the state should be trying to protect liberty and give people advice and let them make their own minds up.

Edited by Stirlingsays (01 Dec 2021 1.11pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Yes I'd say that beyond the first, they don't really achieve much, but they do clearly damage businesses that are forced to shut for extended periods of time.

With masks, the message sent was I think a little unfortunate because it was all posed as solely protecting others and nothing to do with protecting yourself. Ironically I think that this leads to people thinking 'well most people wear crappy or no masks so what's the point'. Whereas if people actually viewed it as protecting themselves, their family etc they may be more inclined to purchase quality N95 /FFP3 masks for those people which certainly would be much more likely to achieve the aim of protecting them.

I don't really disagree. I meant it more from the perspective of pubs being realistically an impossible environment to keep anywhere near safe due to the nature of them (no masks, often not well ventilated, often people talking loudly, at close quarters for hours). In my view everyone should be able to go without ever showing vaccination status and so on. It was more that I know several elderly people who previously thought that wearing a mask until they sat down, and applying a bit of hand sanitiser made it an especially safe environment, whereas really I see it as an environment where if they are capable of contracting the virus they likely will before long.

If they want to go with that in mind, I can well understand it considering as you rightly say the mental health impact of isolation, especially at old age where the clock is ticking down as it is. The elderly have done all tat they can (vaccination etc) and in large part we have to just hope that any changes to the virus is slow enough that a yearly jab can protect them (i'd say it has done so far, but who knows going forward) they have a right to get on with their lives as do others.

Edited by BlueJay (01 Dec 2021 1.53pm)

I am anti mask, anti vax, anti lockdown, and anti vaccine passport! I do believe the virus is real I had it myself not long ago and I was bed ridden with all the symtpoms. I was fine with lemsip, solphadeine and a bottle of 7 up.

I am pro antigen testing and if you want to get on with your life just do your testing before/ after you go to events etc....

If you want lockdown or beleive you are vulnerable then stay in your home and hide under your sofa wait for your booster shot and let the rest of us keep calm and carry on!