You aren't alone. I am not sleeping properly as my mind is still thinking about all the implications. As I am usually able to set my troubles aside and sleep soundly this is unusual so I imagine for some people this is profoundly disturbing, although in comparison to what the folk in Ukraine are going through it's nothing at all.

What is heart-warming is seeing how people from the neighbouring countries are responding. I saw a train arriving in Berlin which carried refugees being greeted by a huge crowd of people offering their homes as places of shelter.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

Well stated. And on the Covid front it was fair enough in my view in terms of opposing lockdowns etc (but not opposing and finding fault with everything!), but it does always seem to the same characters latching onto the next crisis in the same way.

I'd say with the above its mostly the fringes of the right, but clearly the same is true on the left equivalent. There I've noticed lots of people whining about how Ukranians are being allowed into neighbouring countries when others at various times haven't been. People become so caught up in their personal politics, that they completely overlook how hellish the current situation is for some, and take some kind of issue with those fighting for their lives, while praising the man visiting misery upon them (and his own people).

I haven't read anyone suggesting that Putin is like Hitler! I have myself suggested he demonstrates fascist like tendencies, but that doesn't imply equivalence.

None of this is Nato's fault. Nato is solely a defence organisation. It doesn't have aggression in its mandate and any member country deciding to attack another would quickly be removed. Putin's objections to Nato are propaganda, which only the gullible believe. Unfortunately it seems some do.

Putin wants to control that region and not see western values on his doorstep which make his own people unhappy. That's not military aggression. It's a battle of ideas. No-one ought to be scared of ideas.

If his real concern was establishing some kind of military buffer zone it could easily be accommodated. What is untenable is to allow the propaganda excuses to take root in western minds. We need to destroy them in Russian minds, not allow them to seep into ours.

I am sure Ukraine is riddled with corruption. Given its history that seems unavoidable but it's besides the point. That's a challenge to be overcome at the right time, and that's not now. Nor is it "Nazi"! That's just Putin whipping up WW2 sentiment.

I am though somewhat sceptical about the attack on the nuclear plant and reserve my opinion. Who knows? This is war! It's foggy.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

It's literally in this thread and all over media....but hey, if you haven't read it I guess it doesn't exist.

I support Nato, my brother was part of its armies defending western Europe for decades....when we actually needed it.

However this 'see no evil' claim that it's no threat to Russia needs to be seen in the reality of Nato putting missile systems in Poland and Romania....both countries that Nato gave assurances that they wouldn't expand into.

Would the US be happy with Russian missiles being placed in Mexico....you know....just defence like.

Putin would like the soviet empire back, however he's also pragmatic....though apparently I keep being told he's mad.

Putin, aside from being a murderer of dissidents, is an authoritarian and I regard that as bad....is it mad, no.

I regard the truth as more important than lying to people about the greyness of events. I will never shift from that....if some wish to comment that this stance is arrogant and superior then I will take those arrows. I'll stand up for what I see as true and only apologise if that is actually proven wrong.

Our meddling actually resulted in lowering their standard of living and resulted in the country's break up.

Personally I regard the 'Nazi' talk as propaganda from both sides. I'm no expert on Ukraine, what I've heard from those I trust is that the 'neo Nazis' in Ukraine amounts to about 10 percent. There has apparently been attacks on Russian east Ukraine but while I suspect that's true I also suspect that those in east Ukraine are not exactly angels either....I don't know enough about it.

That's a balanced opinion, but in our current climate that doesn't seem to exist and just means you're giving Putin sympathy apparently.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 3.55pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Well if you believe that Putin is there 'denazifying' the country he's bombing, and that the act of defending or arming Ukrainians is 'war mongering', perhaps you might be want to ask yourself which of the above you are.

Still you're free to insult the west and your own nation until the cows come home. If you were Russian and doing the same on this subject, you would be put yourself at risk of a multi year prison sentence. You apparently prefer that idea.

Edited by BlueJay (04 Mar 2022 4.36pm)

If there was ever a sign the war is coming to an end due to British intervention, Chicken Kievs will henceforth identify as Chicken Kyivs!

Thank the Lord for Sainsbury's eh!

Any other suggested renaming of goods would be greatly appreciated by myself

Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!