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Matov 29 Jun 18 2.59pm | |
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Originally posted by DanH
There literally is and you're basically doing exactly what you say in the opening paragraph. So you believe that a nation state should have its own secure border and the right to decide who comes and goes across, subject to the democratically defined wishes of its native population?
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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DanH SW2 29 Jun 18 3.20pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
So you believe that a nation state should have its own secure border and the right to decide who comes and goes across, subject to the democratically defined wishes of its native population? You mean like we do now? (Two can play at this game)
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Penge Eagle Beckenham 29 Jun 18 3.32pm | |
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Originally posted by DanH
She's writing a deliberately provocative and obtuse article - the number of punch lines in there gives that away. As a journalist (sic) I thought you might understand. Fake news!
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matt_himself Matataland 29 Jun 18 3.34pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Bearing in mind the legislation passed a fortnight or so ago in Parliament preventing any new border infrastructure in Ireland and the Conservative and Unionist Party commitment not to have any kind of Irish sea border, how do we square the circle and come up with a Brexit deal (including "no deal" which isn't a very soft brexit or BINO? Genuine question that I can't think of an answer to. Also no deal - is it an option? What about stuff like planes and radioactive isotopes that we import for use in cancer treatment for instance? No deal means we can't fly and people don't get radiotherapy. You couldn’t provide any credible back up to your views on what Parliament had supposedly voted on Ireland a few weeks ago. There was no evidence on the Internet they back up your position. Don’t think that hasn’t been forgotten.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 18 4.02pm | |
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Originally posted by Matov
And trade will carry on. WTO rules kick in. Goods from the EU might become more expensive (good luck to BMW and Mercedes with that) whilst we will have other free trade deals to compensate. Even unilaterally drop tariffs on a whole range of imports from outside of the EU. Prices in the shops will tumble within 6 months. The point is that the EU, despite all the hype around this, sell us more than we buy from it. Countries that are already on their knees economically would be hit even more if it goes to No Deal. All the EU want is the money. I suspect that they will give us a deal, with the removal of free movement, for an increase in the transition period which is essentially how we buy them off. Up it to 3-5 years. And the UK will still need EU workers. Nothing to do with touchy feely moments about the benefits of diversity or similar such bulls*** but just that our economy, unlike that of the majority of the EU, needs workers and we need to increase our tax base. That is what the British public need to swallow and where the Remain w***ers failed so badly. We need migrants and the EU offers us the best quality ones. As simple as that. So we agree to issue x amount of NI numbers to EU citizens with an agreement that after x period, if they pay tax and don't commit crimes, they can stay here. And the EU gets to keep our pensioners and the like pissing their pensions up their walls that desperately need the injection of cash. Effectively a political settlement that allows all sides to claim victory. Ireland are being played. They are merely the s***ty stick the EU are holding over our heads. And once a deal is done, the EU are going to tear Dublin another arsehole over a variety of issues because without the British to protect their interests, they will be out in the open. Just the issue of their corporation tax rates alone are going to make them rue the day their political leaders decided to become bitch boys for Brussels. We can't go back in time. The world has changed. The Open Skies agreement was signed in 2007 for instance. This is totally possible under existing EU laws. UK just doesn't bother implementing them. Would be much easier with an ID card system. Your response ignores a whole host of issues, not least the nature of the EU and the Irish border issue. IMO.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 18 4.12pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
You couldn’t provide any credible back up to your views on what Parliament had supposedly voted on Ireland a few weeks ago. There was no evidence on the Internet they back up your position. Don’t think that hasn’t been forgotten. I posted the text of the amendment... If you have forgotten then go back and have a look. If you don't think what it says amounts to no new infrastructure then what do you think it amounts to? Amendment 25 [Link] "It is hard to see how the government can adhere to the principle of this amendment without either: a) Retaining current EU customs arrangements and trade regulations across the UK, or: b) Installing a hard border in the Irish sea. At the very least, the amendment places a requirement on the UK government to negotiate a deal with the EU which closely mirrors current arrangements, if not replicating them in their entirety."
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matt_himself Matataland 29 Jun 18 4.53pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I posted the text of the amendment... If you have forgotten then go back and have a look. If you don't think what it says amounts to no new infrastructure then what do you think it amounts to? Amendment 25 [Link] "It is hard to see how the government can adhere to the principle of this amendment without either: a) Retaining current EU customs arrangements and trade regulations across the UK, or: b) Installing a hard border in the Irish sea. At the very least, the amendment places a requirement on the UK government to negotiate a deal with the EU which closely mirrors current arrangements, if not replicating them in their entirety." ‘This amendment was interpreted by Kier Starmer to mean...’ Loses all credibility there. The article was clearly written by either you, or someone whom like you has a hard on for the EU. If this was as you say it was, this would be all over the news. It isn’t because it’s an interpretation by Remainers.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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Stirlingsays 29 Jun 18 6.14pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
We can't go back in time. The world has changed. The Open Skies agreement was signed in 2007 for instance. This is totally possible under existing EU laws. UK just doesn't bother implementing them. Would be much easier with an ID card system. Your response ignores a whole host of issues, not least the nature of the EU and the Irish border issue. IMO. I don't know.....Trump seems to be managing it quite successfully. He doesn't play ball with bad agreements. The UK isn't going to have any issues flying....that's just yet another disingenuous piece of BS. You can do whatever the feck you want if you have the will to do it. Edited by Stirlingsays (29 Jun 2018 6.17pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 29 Jun 18 11.04pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
‘This amendment was interpreted by Kier Starmer to mean...’ Loses all credibility there. The article was clearly written by either you, or someone whom like you has a hard on for the EU. If this was as you say it was, this would be all over the news. It isn’t because it’s an interpretation by Remainers. You are being obtuse. Read the amendment and provide your own interpretation. How do you reconcile this law with customs requirements of a third country? Your deflection suggests you have no idea. Which is fair enough.
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matt_himself Matataland 29 Jun 18 11.18pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
You are being obtuse. Read the amendment and provide your own interpretation. How do you reconcile this law with customs requirements of a third country? Your deflection suggests you have no idea. Which is fair enough. Why isn’t this big news, if it is what you claim it is? I asked you that before BTW.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 30 Jun 18 12.38am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Why isn’t this big news, if it is what you claim it is? I asked you that before BTW. Why would the Brexit press report it? It's been retorted in the non Brexit press. It's legislation. Read it for yourself and tell me how you see it.
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matt_himself Matataland 30 Jun 18 6.04am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Why would the Brexit press report it? It's been retorted in the non Brexit press. It's legislation. Read it for yourself and tell me how you see it. Ah! Get out the tin hat and blame Murdoch & Dacre. The fact is that there is significant anti-Brexit press, including newspapers such as the Independent and the Guardian, and none mentions your view on this legislation. That is very strange when you consider both those papers are seeking the so-called ‘Peoples Vote’ and would use your view on that legislation at the drop of a hat. It makes no sense and I cannot help but think that you are grasping at straws.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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