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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Stirlingsays  21 Jun 18 11.21am |
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Just thought that Steely might want to know. The anti-EU, anti-mass migration Swedish Democrats have surged to first place ahead of Sweden’s election in September.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 21 Jun 18 12.48pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Just thought that Steely might want to know. The anti-EU, anti-mass migration Swedish Democrats have surged to first place ahead of Sweden’s election in September. I think a coalition be it of centre-left or right will prevail. The Swedish 'democrats' have neo-fascist roots and kept out of government so far by the others with the PR voting system.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 21 Jun 18 12.50pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
I think a coalition be it of centre-left or right will prevail. The Swedish 'democrats' have neo-fascist roots and kept out of government so far by the others with the PR voting system. The 'democrats' polled 14%, having 'surged' it would still be only 18% still enough for concern.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Jun 18 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
I think a coalition be it of centre-left or right will prevail. The Swedish 'democrats' have neo-fascist roots and kept out of government so far by the others with the PR voting system. You think a right wing party will combine with a left wing one to keep another right wing party out? Coalitions against the largest party are not good for democracy. Any party who is anti high immigration is called neo fascist by the far left. Like I said Steely....anti EU parties are on the rise in the EU. The EU isn't popular and for good reason. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2018 1.11pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Badger11 Beckenham 21 Jun 18 1.45pm |
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News story today about Naz Shah having to come to the commons to vote in a wheelchair because she is ill. She was not paired with a Tory MP. This was the EU debate. Normally parties would pair sick MPs so 1 sick Labour MP would agree not to vote and so would 1 sick Tory. Personally I think all MPs are sick but that's another story. Apparently both parties are blaming each other no surprise there then. My point is that this is stupid and dates back to when MP's retired for months back to their country estates. Making them turn up to vote in person forced them to attend parliament. They should have a process to allow MPS to request an "off-site" vote in these circumstance. Ministers are often out of the country so they cannot vote another stupid convention. We allow people who left this country 15 years ago to vote but not the Foreign Secretary who is representing our country abroad? Hopefully The Speaker will take note and suggest a reform.
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| Stuk Top half 21 Jun 18 2.24pm |
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Originally posted by Badger11
News story today about Naz Shah having to come to the commons to vote in a wheelchair because she is ill. She was not paired with a Tory MP. This was the EU debate. Normally parties would pair sick MPs so 1 sick Labour MP would agree not to vote and so would 1 sick Tory. Personally I think all MPs are sick but that's another story. Apparently both parties are blaming each other no surprise there then. My point is that this is stupid and dates back to when MP's retired for months back to their country estates. Making them turn up to vote in person forced them to attend parliament. They should have a process to allow MPS to request an "off-site" vote in these circumstance. Ministers are often out of the country so they cannot vote another stupid convention. We allow people who left this country 15 years ago to vote but not the Foreign Secretary who is representing our country abroad? Hopefully The Speaker will take note and suggest a reform.
Maybe if she wasn't such an odious individual she wouldn't have had to, but more likely is that Labour didn't ask for this in advance. They had no problem doing it for another Labour MP by her own admission: Posting on Twitter today, Ms Smith, 33, said: 'Thank you NHS for being there when we need it. For me that was an unexpected hospital trip yesterday. 'I’ve been advised not to travel so won’t be able to reach Westminster to vote today. I appreciate the Government pairing me with a Tory MP so it won’t change the result of votes.'
Optimistic as ever |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 21 Jun 18 3.06pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You think a right wing party will combine with a left wing one to keep another right wing party out? Coalitions against the largest party are not good for democracy. Any party who is anti high immigration is called neo fascist by the far left. Like I said Steely....anti EU parties are on the rise in the EU. The EU isn't popular and for good reason. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Jun 2018 1.11pm)
Definitely not Sweden does have government where the voters are represented, coalitions work very well IMO they are best at countering fascism in Europe. Of course the EU is unpopular, in my view unjustifiably but as Mrs T said, we need Brussels to take the blame. There has already been considerable tightening on immigration in the EU, there has been none here in fact after we leave it is forecast to increase. Just a few thoughts.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 21 Jun 18 3.22pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Definitely not Sweden does have government where the voters are represented, coalitions work very well IMO they are best at countering fascism in Europe. Of course the EU is unpopular, in my view unjustifiably but as Mrs T said, we need Brussels to take the blame. There has already been considerable tightening on immigration in the EU, there has been none here in fact after we leave it is forecast to increase. Just a few thoughts. I am not a fan of coalitions they can work but it can also mean the tail wagging the dog. Plenty of Labour supporters are not happy with the Tory - DUP deal and complained about the extra 1bn that Northern Ireland got. Well that's what happens when a smaller party is in the driving seat they extract concessions. On the reverse side the Lib Dems gave up free student loans to pull up a chair at the big table and look what happened to them for breaking their manifesto committment. On balance and for all it's faults I prefer first past the post even when it's a party I didn't vote for.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Jun 18 7.45pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Definitely not Sweden does have government where the voters are represented, coalitions work very well IMO they are best at countering fascism in Europe. Of course the EU is unpopular, in my view unjustifiably but as Mrs T said, we need Brussels to take the blame. There has already been considerable tightening on immigration in the EU, there has been none here in fact after we leave it is forecast to increase. Just a few thoughts. There are no anti EU fascist parties in Europe. Not that I'm aware of anyway. Fascism is authoritarian and anti democratic......You know....Seeing as you like the EU I would have thought you were a bit up for that.
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| steeleye20 Croydon 21 Jun 18 8.41pm |
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Stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities. A functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces in the EU. That is what you have to satisfy to be in the EU.
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| Stirlingsays 21 Jun 18 8.56pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
Stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities. A functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces in the EU. That is what you have to satisfy to be in the EU. Only so the Germans can sell you stuff and know they will get paid for it. What the EU really requires is that you bend the knee.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 21 Jun 18 9.08pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Only so the Germans can sell you stuff and know they will get paid for it. What the EU really requires is that you bend the knee. Stable institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities. The whole reason for the europpean project was that such a thing would never happen again.
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