This is so far off the track of the thread it's not just in a siding, it's headed in an entirely different direction.

I will though just say this. "The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks."

My argument has nothing at all to do with "state and corporate power" and as everything that this answer is build on flows from that error, it can all be disregarded.

My argument is about democracy. We have the power. The state is us. If we decide that we don't like anything, we can change it. That we have entrenched institutions doesn't change that fact. The power exists. We just need to use it, make the arguments and make the changes.

If a majority decide not to associate with a minority, then then can. That's their right. I don't own the truth, but I am able to state one. By the way I have no desire to encourage anyone to treat "social conservatives" as pariahs. I want to see their ideas exposed and defeated by argument. It's people's unacceptable behaviour that I am concerned with.

This idea that the England of my youth was more conservative than the ideas now held by the far-right is propaganda. It is simply untrue. It was socially different to today, but that's not the issue. There is a great deal more involved than just social conventions. Nor is the other country I have lived in more conservative. It is just different. More socially conservative in some ways, more liberal in others. Less respect for the law. Greater respect for the family and neighbourhood.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I started this thread before Putin's invasion had started because his military build up was beginning to look dangerous.

An unelected, vicious and clearly deranged thug, Putin authorized indiscriminate bombing of civilians and last night his troops bombed Europe's largest nuclear power plant. The scenes and the stories of the attacks on civilian buildings including schools and hospitals are sickening.

I woke up last night and just couldn't stop thinking about the horrors unfolding in Ukraine and how the war there could affect us all here.

I'm sure I'm not the only one badly disturbed by this sensless war.

Dad and I watched games standing on the muddy slope of the Holmesdale Road end. He cheered and I rattled.

I am deeply saddened by this senseless destruction and loss of life. Blameless children are not being spared, it is horrible.

My only, and probably hopeless, thought is that the barbarous murderer Putin will be overthrown. We got rid of Hitler 80 years ago but unless his equally deranged successor is overthrown we could be plunged into a cataclysmic, and final, World War.

Ukraine is doomed but God bless her heroic defenders.

Hear Hear.

Considering what he's done and what he's threatened, Putin is actually starting to sound rather desperate and pathetic. That's not to say that desperate leaders aren't capable of causing massive harm; something he's frequently at pains to remind us of. Just an observation. Something tells me he wasn't prepared for how far sanctions have gone, the unified response, and the potential impact of this on his popularity at home (not as though you are really allowed to voice a dislike of him anyway, or stand against him unless you're a fan of nerve agents and dodgy balconies). Such a strong leader. All of that denazifying must be exhausting.

Edited by BlueJay (04 Mar 2022 12.03pm)

Chris Bryant MP seems to be somewhat vociferous on the Oligarch's and what should be done with their assets.
I know he was a Priest but am not too sure how up he is on business.
Quite how he expects the Government to seize all of this stuff overnight I have no idea.
It must be a pretty difficult thing to do so I wish he would shut the f*** up for a while.
He is also now calling out John Terry for posting that Abramovic was a great owner to work for.
Much as I dislike John Terry and much as he could have kept his mouth shut, he is still entitled to a view, as is Mr Bryant.
This particular MP wasn't so clean himself during the expenses scandal either!
I am a little off topic and so will stop my rant!