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Sportyteacher London 25 May 16 11.16am
Originally posted by johnfirewall History doesn't count in Brown's desecration of the treasury so you can drop this one out. I wonder where it all went and who took receipt of it all? [Link]
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Sportyteacher

London 25 May 16 11.16am

Originally posted by johnfirewall

History doesn't count in Brown's desecration of the treasury so you can drop this one out.

I wonder where it all went and who took receipt of it all?

[Link]

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npn Crowborough 25 May 16 11.17am
Originally posted by Rudi Hedman You haven't mentioned Paul Mason wants out of the EU, it has serious issues and catastrophe is around the corner. What he said was he DID WANT A UK EU EXIT but didn't want a UK exit led by the likes of further right of centre Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. They turn his skin, but not in those words, and he MIGHT vote IN just because of this. I can't rememeber what he said about BJ and MG but employees' rights was probably one. I'll watch it again later but he deinitely wanted out but MIGHT vote in because of the tories. Dimbleby was amazed by this. I think he may have said he'd wait for another referendum under different govt (long wait there then) or the break up of the EU, which he did say was inevitable. So a respected economist does want out. He did say however that it had nothing to do with immigration and he was happy with it continuing as it is. Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 May 2016 11.15am) Yes, I listened to that with some incredulity. A 'respected' economist was basically saying he wants out but won't vote for it because some of the people who also want out, he doesn't like. Odd in the extreme, and seemed not a little childish
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npn

Crowborough 25 May 16 11.17am

Originally posted by Rudi Hedman

You haven't mentioned Paul Mason wants out of the EU, it has serious issues and catastrophe is around the corner. What he said was he DID WANT A UK EU EXIT but didn't want a UK exit led by the likes of further right of centre Boris Johnson and Michael Gove. They turn his skin, but not in those words, and he MIGHT vote IN just because of this. I can't rememeber what he said about BJ and MG but employees' rights was probably one. I'll watch it again later but he deinitely wanted out but MIGHT vote in because of the tories. Dimbleby was amazed by this.

I think he may have said he'd wait for another referendum under different govt (long wait there then) or the break up of the EU, which he did say was inevitable.

So a respected economist does want out. He did say however that it had nothing to do with immigration and he was happy with it continuing as it is.

Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 May 2016 11.15am)

Yes, I listened to that with some incredulity. A 'respected' economist was basically saying he wants out but won't vote for it because some of the people who also want out, he doesn't like.

Odd in the extreme, and seemed not a little childish

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Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 May 16 12.04pm
Originally posted by JohnyBoy To be accurate Becky, i think you will find that Britain was invited to join in 1959 but the then Atlee government decided not to, so the original 6 members (w.germany, france, netherlands, italy, belgium and luxembourg) decided to go it alone. At the time, distrust and bitterness towards Germany was cited and an isolationist trade policy was preferred. You are correct that DeGaulle (of all people) then vetoed Britains application to join in the 60s until George Pompidou removed the French veto allowing Britain to join in the early 70s. Wrt reparations, under the Potsdam agreement Germany was required to pay reparations and did so to Greece, Poland and a few others but as part of the Marshall plan Britain dropped its claim for reparations. By 1976 it was however w.Germany and the US who funded Britains loan as part of the imf bailout. Atlee wasn't PM in 1959, it was MacMillan. Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham
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Cucking Funt

Clapham on the Back 25 May 16 12.04pm

Originally posted by JohnyBoy

To be accurate Becky, i think you will find that Britain was invited to join in 1959 but the then Atlee government decided not to, so the original 6 members (w.germany, france, netherlands, italy, belgium and luxembourg) decided to go it alone. At the time, distrust and bitterness towards Germany was cited and an isolationist trade policy was preferred. You are correct that DeGaulle (of all people) then vetoed Britains application to join in the 60s until George Pompidou removed the French veto allowing Britain to join in the early 70s.
Wrt reparations, under the Potsdam agreement Germany was required to pay reparations and did so to Greece, Poland and a few others but as part of the Marshall plan Britain dropped its claim for reparations. By 1976 it was however w.Germany and the US who funded Britains loan as part of the imf bailout.

Atlee wasn't PM in 1959, it was MacMillan.

Wife beating may be socially acceptable in Sheffield, but it is a different matter in Cheltenham

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JohnyBoy 25 May 16 12.22pm
Originally posted by Cucking Funt Atlee wasn't PM in 1959, it was MacMillan. Indeed you are correct Cucking, Atlee was the PM when it all started with the european coal commission and he was against joining. It was 1959/1960 that macmillan changed tack and started looking at joining, officially applying in about 1962/63.
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JohnyBoy

25 May 16 12.22pm

Originally posted by Cucking Funt

Atlee wasn't PM in 1959, it was MacMillan.

Indeed you are correct Cucking, Atlee was the PM when it all started with the european coal commission and he was against joining. It was 1959/1960 that macmillan changed tack and started looking at joining, officially applying in about 1962/63.

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Hoof Hearted 25 May 16 12.23pm
The whole debate has turned into a farce and I've decided not to take part any more on here except to confirm I will vote Out/Leave. The debating period is/was far too long and the claims from Remain get more ridiculous and desperate every day especially from Cameron. I think most people have made their minds up about how they will vote. The biggest problem remain has is to motivate their mostly younger supporters to actually vote on the day. The leave camp is a more older fan-base and will vote no matter what. I think it will be a close run thing either way. Whatever happens in the referendum vote though, I believe Cameron and Osborne are fatally tainted by their actions in pursuit of a win for Remain at all costs. They will be turned upon by the Eurosceptics in a very nasty fashion for not pursuing the cause they both actually firmly believed in beforehand - which is to leave. Corbyn has done an even bigger u turn on the matter after bitterly criticising the EU for 40+ years, but he has fcuk all to lose as his appeal with the voting public could not get much lower than it is. I can see another resurgence of UKIP support, this time resulting in more MP's by way of Tory defectors and voted in for constituencies with small majorities (both Labour and Tory). See you all post Brexit....... LOL
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Hoof Hearted 25 May 16 12.23pm

The whole debate has turned into a farce and I've decided not to take part any more on here except to confirm I will vote Out/Leave.

The debating period is/was far too long and the claims from Remain get more ridiculous and desperate every day especially from Cameron.

I think most people have made their minds up about how they will vote. The biggest problem remain has is to motivate their mostly younger supporters to actually vote on the day. The leave camp is a more older fan-base and will vote no matter what. I think it will be a close run thing either way.

Whatever happens in the referendum vote though, I believe Cameron and Osborne are fatally tainted by their actions in pursuit of a win for Remain at all costs. They will be turned upon by the Eurosceptics in a very nasty fashion for not pursuing the cause they both actually firmly believed in beforehand - which is to leave.

Corbyn has done an even bigger u turn on the matter after bitterly criticising the EU for 40+ years, but he has fcuk all to lose as his appeal with the voting public could not get much lower than it is.

I can see another resurgence of UKIP support, this time resulting in more MP's by way of Tory defectors and voted in for constituencies with small majorities (both Labour and Tory).

See you all post Brexit....... LOL

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We are goin up! Coulsdon 25 May 16 12.28pm
Originally posted by Kermit8 It was your lot that signed us up to the whole shebang and now you want 'Out' even though you knew full well what you were getting into. Thanks again Tories. But you still want to vote to stay in it? By your logic that makes you a Tory. You've become a bit of a weirdo on this thread to be honest. The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
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We are goin up!

Coulsdon 25 May 16 12.28pm

Send a Private Message to We are goin up!

Originally posted by Kermit8

It was your lot that signed us up to the whole shebang and now you want 'Out' even though you knew full well what you were getting into. Thanks again Tories.

But you still want to vote to stay in it? By your logic that makes you a Tory. You've become a bit of a weirdo on this thread to be honest.

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

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johnfirewall 25 May 16 3.43pm
Originally posted by We are goin up! But you still want to vote to stay in it? By your logic that makes you a Tory. You've become a bit of a weirdo on this thread to be honest. I'm becoming increasingly confused by what the left actually want other than workers'/human rights which apply regardless. -Financial stability to be able to support poorer EU nations -Unelected officials to remove power from a democratically elected government -Resistance to American dominance within a union signing our rights away through TTIP -Cheaper housing with millions of migrants increasing the demand and thus price -Protection of the rights of workers, terrorists and prisoners -Money for the NHS while giving away millions per day At least anyone taking a punt on leaving to reduce the strain on services and infrastructure is being realistic. Edited by johnfirewall (25 May 2016 3.46pm)
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johnfirewall

25 May 16 3.43pm

Originally posted by We are goin up!

But you still want to vote to stay in it? By your logic that makes you a Tory. You've become a bit of a weirdo on this thread to be honest.

I'm becoming increasingly confused by what the left actually want other than workers'/human rights which apply regardless.

-Financial stability to be able to support poorer EU nations
-Unelected officials to remove power from a democratically elected government
-Resistance to American dominance within a union signing our rights away through TTIP
-Cheaper housing with millions of migrants increasing the demand and thus price
-Protection of the rights of workers, terrorists and prisoners
-Money for the NHS while giving away millions per day

At least anyone taking a punt on leaving to reduce the strain on services and infrastructure is being realistic.

Edited by johnfirewall (25 May 2016 3.46pm)

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 May 16 4.07pm
Originally posted by johnfirewall I'm becoming increasingly confused by what the left actually want other than workers'/human rights which apply regardless. -Financial stability to be able to support poorer EU nations -Unelected officials to remove power from a democratically elected government -Resistance to American dominance within a union signing our rights away through TTIP -Cheaper housing with millions of migrants increasing the demand and thus price -Protection of the rights of workers, terrorists and prisoners -Money for the NHS while giving away millions per day At least anyone taking a punt on leaving to reduce the strain on services and infrastructure is being realistic. Add to that 3.5 million jobs linked to EU demand when our exports to the EU are 45% and still falling whilst exports to other countries are 55% and rising, and that's without opening up more markets which is possible after leaving the EU. They are looking at this with short-term safety without thinking of the long-term benefits. I like the way they ask youngsters who are thinking about working abroad what they're voting for. What about people who want to stay here, have more chance of a job and a home, and the same for their offspring? All this isn't going to affect me much but it will others. Let's just hope mumsnet doesn't get the flapping mothers to sh1t it and get all spineless over a few months or year or 2 of readjusting and the odd shock. Life lasts 80 years not 12-24 months. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 May 16 4.07pm

Originally posted by johnfirewall

I'm becoming increasingly confused by what the left actually want other than workers'/human rights which apply regardless.

At least anyone taking a punt on leaving to reduce the strain on services and infrastructure is being realistic.

Add to that 3.5 million jobs linked to EU demand when our exports to the EU are 45% and still falling whilst exports to other countries are 55% and rising, and that's without opening up more markets which is possible after leaving the EU.

They are looking at this with short-term safety without thinking of the long-term benefits.

I like the way they ask youngsters who are thinking about working abroad what they're voting for. What about people who want to stay here, have more chance of a job and a home, and the same for their offspring? All this isn't going to affect me much but it will others. Let's just hope mumsnet doesn't get the flapping mothers to sh1t it and get all spineless over a few months or year or 2 of readjusting and the odd shock. Life lasts 80 years not 12-24 months.

COYP

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Kermit8 Hevon 25 May 16 4.11pm
Originally posted by We are goin up! But you still want to vote to stay in it? By your logic that makes you a Tory. You've become a bit of a weirdo on this thread to be honest. That's the problem with t'internet. The intended tone in one's postings cannot always be correctly digested by the reader. Big chest and massive boobs [Link]
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Kermit8

Hevon 25 May 16 4.11pm

Originally posted by We are goin up!

But you still want to vote to stay in it? By your logic that makes you a Tory. You've become a bit of a weirdo on this thread to be honest.

That's the problem with t'internet. The intended tone in one's postings cannot always be correctly digested by the reader.

Big chest and massive boobs

[Link]

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Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 May 16 4.17pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted I think most people have made their minds up about how they will vote. The biggest problem remain has is to motivate their mostly younger supporters to actually vote on the day. The leave camp is a more older fan-base and will vote no matter what. I think it will be a close run thing either way. They think Mums haven't. If I were a Mum I'd probably be worried if my children were about to enter the job market. On the other hand I'd be concerned if my Children were a decade or 2 from the job market with the UK's problems in a worse state then. COYP
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Rudi Hedman

Caterham 25 May 16 4.17pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

I think most people have made their minds up about how they will vote. The biggest problem remain has is to motivate their mostly younger supporters to actually vote on the day. The leave camp is a more older fan-base and will vote no matter what. I think it will be a close run thing either way.

They think Mums haven't.

If I were a Mum I'd probably be worried if my children were about to enter the job market.

On the other hand I'd be concerned if my Children were a decade or 2 from the job market with the UK's problems in a worse state then.

COYP

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Sportyteacher London 25 May 16 7.38pm
Originally posted by Hoof Hearted The whole debate has turned into a farce and I've decided not to take part any more on here except to confirm I will vote Out/Leave. The debating period is/was far too long and the claims from Remain get more ridiculous and desperate every day especially from Cameron. I think most people have made their minds up about how they will vote. The biggest problem remain has is to motivate their mostly younger supporters to actually vote on the day. The leave camp is a more older fan-base and will vote no matter what. I think it will be a close run thing either way. Whatever happens in the referendum vote though, I believe Cameron and Osborne are fatally tainted by their actions in pursuit of a win for Remain at all costs. They will be turned upon by the Eurosceptics in a very nasty fashion for not pursuing the cause they both actually firmly believed in beforehand - which is to leave. Corbyn has done an even bigger u turn on the matter after bitterly criticising the EU for 40+ years, but he has fcuk all to lose as his appeal with the voting public could not get much lower than it is. I can see another resurgence of UKIP support, this time resulting in more MP's by way of Tory defectors and voted in for constituencies with small majorities (both Labour and Tory). See you all post Brexit....... LOL And there goes the admission of defeat in argument especially when any voter chooses to take the erroneous detail of the latest BREXIT NHS advert into account: [Link] 'Every week The UK pays £350m to be part of The EU' is the claim that FAILS to disclose The EU Rebates filtering back into The UK to support the likes of the farming industry and regions of social & economic difficulty e.g. Cornwall & Wales have all benefited from such payments to date. The farming industry is indeed hugely reliant upon EU subsidies.
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Sportyteacher

London 25 May 16 7.38pm

Originally posted by Hoof Hearted

The whole debate has turned into a farce and I've decided not to take part any more on here except to confirm I will vote Out/Leave.

The debating period is/was far too long and the claims from Remain get more ridiculous and desperate every day especially from Cameron.

I can see another resurgence of UKIP support, this time resulting in more MP's by way of Tory defectors and voted in for constituencies with small majorities (both Labour and Tory).

See you all post Brexit....... LOL

And there goes the admission of defeat in argument especially when any voter chooses to take the erroneous detail of the latest BREXIT NHS advert into account:

[Link]

'Every week The UK pays £350m to be part of The EU' is the claim that FAILS to disclose The EU Rebates filtering back into The UK to support the likes of the farming industry and regions of social & economic difficulty e.g. Cornwall & Wales have all benefited from such payments to date. The farming industry is indeed hugely reliant upon EU subsidies.

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johnfirewall 25 May 16 8.15pm
Originally posted by Sportyteacher And there goes the admission of defeat in argument especially when any voter chooses to take the erroneous detail of the latest BREXIT NHS advert into account: [Link] 'Every week The UK pays £350m to be part of The EU' is the claim that FAILS to disclose The EU Rebates filtering back into The UK to support the likes of the farming industry and regions of social & economic difficulty e.g. Cornwall & Wales have all benefited from such payments to date. The farming industry is indeed hugely reliant upon EU subsidies. And a great policy that is. [Link] Surely we'd be better of ensuring they get a better price for their produce. Why not subsidise the produce directly if it's such an unprofitable business? p.s. there was a similar article in the Guardian but the author goes off on a bit of a tangent about corn being the problem.
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johnfirewall

25 May 16 8.15pm

Originally posted by Sportyteacher

And there goes the admission of defeat in argument especially when any voter chooses to take the erroneous detail of the latest BREXIT NHS advert into account:

[Link]

And a great policy that is.

[Link]

Surely we'd be better of ensuring they get a better price for their produce. Why not subsidise the produce directly if it's such an unprofitable business?

p.s. there was a similar article in the Guardian but the author goes off on a bit of a tangent about corn being the problem.

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