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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 03 Mar 22 9.01pm
Originally posted by ASCPFC It's not my area and I haven't been following it, but last I knew Georgia was a Russian puppet state and Kazakhstan were in some deal with China. It would fit the usual norms (where Russia and China often fight each other), but currently sounds a bit strange. Presumably there's some disputed territory - I wouldn't know specifics. I could look it up but I trust myself more than most of the internet these days. Other way around they're trying to join the EU/NATO [Link] The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 03 Mar 22 9.01pm

Originally posted by ASCPFC

It's not my area and I haven't been following it, but last I knew Georgia was a Russian puppet state and Kazakhstan were in some deal with China. It would fit the usual norms (where Russia and China often fight each other), but currently sounds a bit strange. Presumably there's some disputed territory - I wouldn't know specifics. I could look it up but I trust myself more than most of the internet these days.

Other way around they're trying to join the EU/NATO
[Link]

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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BlueJay UK 03 Mar 22 9.19pm
Originally posted by YT What was it previously then? Milton Keynes
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BlueJay

UK 03 Mar 22 9.19pm

Originally posted by YT

What was it previously then?

Milton Keynes

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cryrst The garden of England 03 Mar 22 11.15pm
Originally posted by BlueJay This is far more likely to get Putin's attention than his own people, so is maybe a good sign that a solution other than violence can be reached. I expect Putin hopes for a good compromise, rather than an endless war. Or the company will be having a recruitment drive very soon.!
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cryrst

The garden of England 03 Mar 22 11.15pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

This is far more likely to get Putin's attention than his own people, so is maybe a good sign that a solution other than violence can be reached. I expect Putin hopes for a good compromise, rather than an endless war.

Or the company will be having a recruitment drive very soon.!

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BlueJay UK 03 Mar 22 11.41pm
Russian troops heading towards Europe's largest nuclear power plant, says mayor Russian troops have been seen heading towards Europe's largest nuclear power plant, a Ukrainian official has said. According to the mayor of Energodar, a column of troops have been spotted moving closer to the Zaporizhzhia plant late this evening. Earlier, the Ukrainian authorities reported that the Russian military were stepping up efforts to seize the plant in southeast Ukraine and had entered Energodar with tanks. "Loud shots can be heard in the town," said Mayor Dmytro Orlov. Russia has already captured the defunct Chernobyl plant, some 100 km north of Ukraine's capital, Kyiv."
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BlueJay

UK 03 Mar 22 11.41pm

Russian troops heading towards Europe's largest nuclear power plant, says mayor

Russian troops have been seen heading towards Europe's largest nuclear power plant, a Ukrainian official has said.

According to the mayor of Energodar, a column of troops have been spotted moving closer to the Zaporizhzhia plant late this evening.

Earlier, the Ukrainian authorities reported that the Russian military were stepping up efforts to seize the plant in southeast Ukraine and had entered Energodar with tanks.

"Loud shots can be heard in the town," said Mayor Dmytro Orlov.

Russia has already captured the defunct Chernobyl plant, some 100 km north of Ukraine's capital, Kyiv."

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BlueJay UK 03 Mar 22 11.46pm
Footage from near Zaporizhzhia power plant [Tweet Link] If there's a leak I'm of the belief that the impact would be more within the vicinity. At minimum, not a smart area to be firing in though. Edited by BlueJay (04 Mar 2022 1.12am)
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BlueJay

UK 03 Mar 22 11.46pm

Footage from near Zaporizhzhia power plant

[Tweet Link]

If there's a leak I'm of the belief that the impact would be more within the vicinity. At minimum, not a smart area to be firing in though.

Edited by BlueJay (04 Mar 2022 1.12am)

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Stirlingsays 04 Mar 22 2.15am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle All I am doing is pointing out the truth. Which is if people have the right to behave as they choose, then others also have a right not to associate with them. If the latter outnumber the former then their will, will prevail. Whether via laws or commercial pressures. Having "power" is an irrelevance. It's only behaviour that is. Nor is "censorship" involved. It's merely the freedom to reject behaviour if you find it unacceptable. Smokers can no longer smoke in front of others and no-one thinks that odd any more. The west has decided Putin's behaviour means he can no longer be accepted as a partner, and they are removing access to the things they own, but were prepared to share. That's not censorship. It's ostracising a pariah. You do not have ownership of the truth. No one forces you to associate with anyone, that is not the issue. State and corporate power operating as one is the issue. Corporate power is effectively the state when all of it speaks with the same voice.....that's one of the tenets of fascism by the way. The corporations were not allowed to differ. It is then a monopoly on power. For example, I have no issue with a bakery refusing to bake the gay cake. However, when all bakeries refuse to bake the cake under activist and governmental pressure, then we have a real problem because that's anti competitive monopoly controlled by the back door....if you excuse the pun. You saying 'power' is irrelevant isn't borne out in reality. For example, the communists have been allowed to operate, publicise and associate in western societies since Marx settled here. Communism literally advocates for the violent overthrow of capitalism, the very beating heart of the west, yet it was started in the west written not by the poor but by educated men of means who weren't persecuted. That was in a socially conservative era....one that actually believed in more thought freedoms than your lip service pays pretence to....When you refer to freedom of speech and then write 'but' what comes next just reads like Orwell's double speak. If you are indeed 77 then I want to point out that by the time I was born you were already an adult of some years at the age of around 24. The society you would have existed and operated within was far more conservative, in some areas, than even I would agree with....Yet you were allowed to operate freely within it, protest was allowed, parties were allowed....polar opposite opinion were allowed and not considered 'hate speech' because, outside of physical threats that whole concept was rightly considered nonsense.....It was considered soviet in fact. I will also point out that you travelled to and lived in very socially conservative societies with attitudes that outstrip anything Nick Fuentes talks about. You were not forced to live there, yet there you went. Yet now western society has turned into what I consider a weird form of socially liberal authoritarianism you want to treat the social conservatives of today as 'pariahs'....not allow them to promote their ideas, associate or compete in the ideological marketplace. Do you not see the hypocrisy? That is pure authoritarianism and no different to Putin or China....They justify their approach precisely how you justify it by claiming to hold the truth and some morality that's not allowed to be questioned nor countered. Was that not the authoritarianism that our grandparents fought against? You WE are wearing the emperor's clothes. Like him, if we take you at your word, you can't see that you're naked but your wrinkly butt is obvious to anyone else honest enough to look. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 2.19am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

04 Mar 22 2.15am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

All I am doing is pointing out the truth. Which is if people have the right to behave as they choose, then others also have a right not to associate with them. If the latter outnumber the former then their will, will prevail. Whether via laws or commercial pressures.

Having "power" is an irrelevance. It's only behaviour that is. Nor is "censorship" involved. It's merely the freedom to reject behaviour if you find it unacceptable. Smokers can no longer smoke in front of others and no-one thinks that odd any more.

The west has decided Putin's behaviour means he can no longer be accepted as a partner, and they are removing access to the things they own, but were prepared to share. That's not censorship. It's ostracising a pariah.

You do not have ownership of the truth.

No one forces you to associate with anyone, that is not the issue. State and corporate power operating as one is the issue. Corporate power is effectively the state when all of it speaks with the same voice.....that's one of the tenets of fascism by the way. The corporations were not allowed to differ.

It is then a monopoly on power.

For example, I have no issue with a bakery refusing to bake the gay cake. However, when all bakeries refuse to bake the cake under activist and governmental pressure, then we have a real problem because that's anti competitive monopoly controlled by the back door....if you excuse the pun.

You saying 'power' is irrelevant isn't borne out in reality. For example, the communists have been allowed to operate, publicise and associate in western societies since Marx settled here. Communism literally advocates for the violent overthrow of capitalism, the very beating heart of the west, yet it was started in the west written not by the poor but by educated men of means who weren't persecuted.

That was in a socially conservative era....one that actually believed in more thought freedoms than your lip service pays pretence to....When you refer to freedom of speech and then write 'but' what comes next just reads like Orwell's double speak.

If you are indeed 77 then I want to point out that by the time I was born you were already an adult of some years at the age of around 24. The society you would have existed and operated within was far more conservative, in some areas, than even I would agree with....Yet you were allowed to operate freely within it, protest was allowed, parties were allowed....polar opposite opinion were allowed and not considered 'hate speech' because, outside of physical threats that whole concept was rightly considered nonsense.....It was considered soviet in fact.

I will also point out that you travelled to and lived in very socially conservative societies with attitudes that outstrip anything Nick Fuentes talks about. You were not forced to live there, yet there you went.

Yet now western society has turned into what I consider a weird form of socially liberal authoritarianism you want to treat the social conservatives of today as 'pariahs'....not allow them to promote their ideas, associate or compete in the ideological marketplace. Do you not see the hypocrisy?

That is pure authoritarianism and no different to Putin or China....They justify their approach precisely how you justify it by claiming to hold the truth and some morality that's not allowed to be questioned nor countered. Was that not the authoritarianism that our grandparents fought against?

You WE are wearing the emperor's clothes. Like him, if we take you at your word, you can't see that you're naked but your wrinkly butt is obvious to anyone else honest enough to look.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 2.19am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Ouzo Dan Behind you 04 Mar 22 3.03am
What I've been watching tonight is unbelievable, we're fast approaching military intervention & everything that comes with it. The mountains are calling & I must go.
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Ouzo Dan

Behind you 04 Mar 22 3.03am

What I've been watching tonight is unbelievable, we're fast approaching military intervention & everything that comes with it.

The mountains are calling & I must go.

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W12 04 Mar 22 9.55am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays You do not have ownership of the truth. No one forces you to associate with anyone, that is not the issue. State and corporate power operating as one is the issue. Corporate power is effectively the state when all of it speaks with the same voice.....that's one of the tenets of fascism by the way. The corporations were not allowed to differ. It is then a monopoly on power. For example, I have no issue with a bakery refusing to bake the gay cake. However, when all bakeries refuse to bake the cake under activist and governmental pressure, then we have a real problem because that's anti competitive monopoly controlled by the back door....if you excuse the pun. You saying 'power' is irrelevant isn't borne out in reality. For example, the communists have been allowed to operate, publicise and associate in western societies since Marx settled here. Communism literally advocates for the violent overthrow of capitalism, the very beating heart of the west, yet it was started in the west written not by the poor but by educated men of means who weren't persecuted. That was in a socially conservative era....one that actually believed in more thought freedoms than your lip service pays pretence to....When you refer to freedom of speech and then write 'but' what comes next just reads like Orwell's double speak. If you are indeed 77 then I want to point out that by the time I was born you were already an adult of some years at the age of around 24. The society you would have existed and operated within was far more conservative, in some areas, than even I would agree with....Yet you were allowed to operate freely within it, protest was allowed, parties were allowed....polar opposite opinion were allowed and not considered 'hate speech' because, outside of physical threats that whole concept was rightly considered nonsense.....It was considered soviet in fact. I will also point out that you travelled to and lived in very socially conservative societies with attitudes that outstrip anything Nick Fuentes talks about. You were not forced to live there, yet there you went. Yet now western society has turned into what I consider a weird form of socially liberal authoritarianism you want to treat the social conservatives of today as 'pariahs'....not allow them to promote their ideas, associate or compete in the ideological marketplace. Do you not see the hypocrisy? That is pure authoritarianism and no different to Putin or China....They justify their approach precisely how you justify it by claiming to hold the truth and some morality that's not allowed to be questioned nor countered. Was that not the authoritarianism that our grandparents fought against? You WE are wearing the emperor's clothes. Like him, if we take you at your word, you can't see that you're naked but your wrinkly butt is obvious to anyone else honest enough to look. Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 2.19am) Great post
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W12 04 Mar 22 9.55am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You do not have ownership of the truth.

It is then a monopoly on power.

You WE are wearing the emperor's clothes. Like him, if we take you at your word, you can't see that you're naked but your wrinkly butt is obvious to anyone else honest enough to look.

Edited by Stirlingsays (04 Mar 2022 2.19am)

Great post

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kevlee born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 04 Mar 22 10.07am
Originally posted by Ouzo Dan What I've been watching tonight is unbelievable, we're fast approaching military intervention & everything that comes with it. Bombing a nucluer power station... sounds very dangerous, but Ukraine and the western allies pushed Putin into doing it didnt they. Its all our faults really.. Ukraine has no one to blame but themselves. All this global outcry is just woke virtue signalling according to some on here. Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.07am) Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.08am) Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978
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kevlee

born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 04 Mar 22 10.07am

Originally posted by Ouzo Dan

What I've been watching tonight is unbelievable, we're fast approaching military intervention & everything that comes with it.

Bombing a nucluer power station... sounds very dangerous, but Ukraine and the western allies pushed Putin into doing it didnt they. Its all our faults really.. Ukraine has no one to blame but themselves. All this global outcry is just woke virtue signalling according to some on here.

Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.07am)

Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.08am)

Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978

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silvertop Portishead 04 Mar 22 10.22am
Somebody has probably already posted this and I am not sure it is 100% correct. I suspect he also has re-establishing the empire for "legacy" reasons as a goal. BTW "bee production"!? THIS IS WHY PUTIN WANTS UKRAINE: Ukraine ranks: 1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores; 2nd in Europe and 10th in the world in titanium ore reserves; 2nd in the world in explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world’s reserves); 2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons); 2nd in Europe in mercury ore reserves; 3rd in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters) 4th in the world by the total value of natural resources; 7th in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons) Ukraine is an agricultural country: 1st in Europe in arable land area; 3rd in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world’s volume); 1st in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil; 2nd in the world in barley production and 4th in barley exports; 3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world; 4th largest producer of potatoes in the world; 5th largest rye producer in the world; 5th in the world in bee production (75,000 tons); 8th in the world in wheat exports; 9th in the world in the production of chicken eggs; 16th in the world in cheese exports. Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people. Ukraine is an industrialized country: 1st in Europe in ammonia production; 2nd in Europe’s and 4th largest natural gas pipeline system in the world (142.5 bln cubic meters of gas throughput capacity in the EU); 3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in installed capacity of nuclear power plants; 3rd in Europe and 11th in the world in rail network length (21,700 km); 3rd in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment; 3rd largest iron exporter in the world 4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world; 4th world’s largest manufacturer of rocket launchers; 4th in the world in clay exports 4th in the world in titanium exports 8th in the world in exports of ores and concentrates; 9th in the world in exports of defence industry products; 10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).
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silvertop

Portishead 04 Mar 22 10.22am

Somebody has probably already posted this and I am not sure it is 100% correct. I suspect he also has re-establishing the empire for "legacy" reasons as a goal. BTW "bee production"!?

THIS IS WHY PUTIN WANTS UKRAINE:
Ukraine ranks:
1st in Europe in proven recoverable reserves of uranium ores;
2nd in Europe and 10th in the world in titanium ore reserves;
2nd in the world in explored reserves of manganese ores (2.3 billion tons, or 12% of the world’s reserves);
2nd largest iron ore reserves in the world (30 billion tons);
2nd in Europe in mercury ore reserves;
3rd in Europe (13th place in the world) in shale gas reserves (22 trillion cubic meters)
4th in the world by the total value of natural resources;
7th in the world in coal reserves (33.9 billion tons)

Ukraine is an agricultural country:
1st in Europe in arable land area;
3rd in the world by the area of black soil (25% of world’s volume);
1st in the world in exports of sunflower and sunflower oil;
2nd in the world in barley production and 4th in barley exports;
3rd largest producer and 4th largest exporter of corn in the world;
4th largest producer of potatoes in the world;
5th largest rye producer in the world;
5th in the world in bee production (75,000 tons);
8th in the world in wheat exports;
9th in the world in the production of chicken eggs;
16th in the world in cheese exports.

Ukraine can meet the food needs of 600 million people.

Ukraine is an industrialized country:
1st in Europe in ammonia production;
2nd in Europe’s and 4th largest natural gas pipeline system in the world (142.5 bln cubic meters of gas throughput capacity in the EU);
3rd largest in Europe and 8th largest in the world in installed capacity of nuclear power plants;
3rd in Europe and 11th in the world in rail network length (21,700 km);
3rd in the world (after the U.S. and France) in production of locators and locating equipment;
3rd largest iron exporter in the world
4th largest exporter of turbines for nuclear power plants in the world;
4th world’s largest manufacturer of rocket launchers;
4th in the world in clay exports
4th in the world in titanium exports
8th in the world in exports of ores and concentrates;
9th in the world in exports of defence industry products;
10th largest steel producer in the world (32.4 million tons).

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silvertop Portishead 04 Mar 22 10.25am
Originally posted by kevlee Bombing a nucluer power station... sounds very dangerous, but Ukraine and the western allies pushed Putin into doing it didnt they. Its all our faults really.. Ukraine has no one to blame but themselves. All this global outcry is just woke virtue signalling according to some on here. Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.07am) Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.08am) I think they have gone a bit quiet. Bexiteers also keeping heads down. One of, if not the primary reason, I voted to remain was a concern about Russia and China and the need for strength in unity against their expansionism. perhaps we now see why he intervened in our referendum. Chickens home roost?
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silvertop

Portishead 04 Mar 22 10.25am

Originally posted by kevlee

Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.07am)

Edited by kevlee (04 Mar 2022 10.08am)

I think they have gone a bit quiet.

Bexiteers also keeping heads down. One of, if not the primary reason, I voted to remain was a concern about Russia and China and the need for strength in unity against their expansionism. perhaps we now see why he intervened in our referendum. Chickens home roost?

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Nicholas91 The Democratic Republic of Kent 04 Mar 22 10.32am
Originally posted by W12 Great post Seconded. Very impressed with that observation. Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!
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Nicholas91