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chris123 hove actually 22 Nov 19 10.25am
Originally posted by Matov To be fair to the Labour Party (and that is not something I known for doing) they have presented the country with a radical manifesto. You can argue that much of it is pie-in-the-sky but it does put some clear water between it and what has been the ruling neo-liberal hegemony for some while now. And if they were respecting the Brexit vote, it might actually appeal. They did well in 2017. Bloody well really considering what the polling was telling us with notable exceptions. Now I would never vote Labour in a million years and with the likes of IRA loving scumbags like Corbyn and co in charge then make that period of time closer to infinity but in terms of politics, they are offering people a genuine choice. That is a REAL Labour manifesto in all its vomit-inducing glory. Fair play to them on that. But Brexit is going to f*** them up. The underlying narrative is for Brexit to be done and dusted. Over. People are sick of it but, on the whole, believe the vote of 2016 should be respected. Labour offer the very worst of options on that. All they are offering is more of the same followed by a farce of a referendum that ends nothing. Only adds fuel to the fire. And why I truly struggle to understand the Remainer Retard mentality. They truly are the most venal and stupid of political tribes ever who seem to have an almost imbecilic lack of understanding of how the very core of the democratic process actually works. Morons to the 'nth degree. Not sure how Labour reconcile a remain scenario and what can be nationalised whilst staying within EU competition rules.
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chris123

hove actually 22 Nov 19 10.25am

Originally posted by Matov

To be fair to the Labour Party (and that is not something I known for doing) they have presented the country with a radical manifesto. You can argue that much of it is pie-in-the-sky but it does put some clear water between it and what has been the ruling neo-liberal hegemony for some while now.

And if they were respecting the Brexit vote, it might actually appeal. They did well in 2017. Bloody well really considering what the polling was telling us with notable exceptions.

Now I would never vote Labour in a million years and with the likes of IRA loving scumbags like Corbyn and co in charge then make that period of time closer to infinity but in terms of politics, they are offering people a genuine choice. That is a REAL Labour manifesto in all its vomit-inducing glory. Fair play to them on that.

But Brexit is going to f*** them up. The underlying narrative is for Brexit to be done and dusted. Over. People are sick of it but, on the whole, believe the vote of 2016 should be respected. Labour offer the very worst of options on that. All they are offering is more of the same followed by a farce of a referendum that ends nothing. Only adds fuel to the fire. And why I truly struggle to understand the Remainer Retard mentality. They truly are the most venal and stupid of political tribes ever who seem to have an almost imbecilic lack of understanding of how the very core of the democratic process actually works. Morons to the 'nth degree.

Not sure how Labour reconcile a remain scenario and what can be nationalised whilst staying within EU competition rules.

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 10.44am
Originally posted by W12 Both my kids are in private education at different schools and I'm having to intervene directly with them on a clearly left wing bias curriculum e.g. they will do a whole term on "empire and slavery" but barely cover the Magna Carter or the Bill of Rights. The whole system is rotten to the core. Fair enough. I wasn't exploring the idea of bias in the response. I suppose my general point was that at least 20 years ago (which admittedly is a long time) both world wars were more than adequately covered as part of the curriculum, along with several other topics – the further we moved through the school the more opportunity was given for pupils to direct learning rather than simply be told what to learn. Curriculum still had to be followed but there were opportunities to properly explore other historical topics of interest, and most importantly you were encouraged to do independent exploration of what interested you alongside what was required. And finally, most importantly, you were encouraged to challenge. The private system is nowhere near as 'rotten' as the state. I'd happily work 3 jobs to send my kids to private school ahead of the state system. There is literally no logical argument that stacks up to favour state over private. On the subject of ideological or political bias, that's always been present in education. Just depends on when as to whether its left leaning, right leaning or centrist – Universities are certainly going the wrong way, there needs to be more of a balance, or at least less censuring from the left. It's also hard to cover every single topic, people are always going to moan that kids aren't being taught the right thing, or not enough of something, or whatever. It's thankless. There has to be some filtering. Plus, the main topics studied are of course usually guided by the exam content, so it's not necessarily a school specific issue. Talk to the exam board. Edited by SW19 CPFC (22 Nov 2019 10.46am) Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 10.44am

Originally posted by W12

Both my kids are in private education at different schools and I'm having to intervene directly with them on a clearly left wing bias curriculum e.g. they will do a whole term on "empire and slavery" but barely cover the Magna Carter or the Bill of Rights. The whole system is rotten to the core.

Fair enough. I wasn't exploring the idea of bias in the response.

I suppose my general point was that at least 20 years ago (which admittedly is a long time) both world wars were more than adequately covered as part of the curriculum, along with several other topics – the further we moved through the school the more opportunity was given for pupils to direct learning rather than simply be told what to learn.

Curriculum still had to be followed but there were opportunities to properly explore other historical topics of interest, and most importantly you were encouraged to do independent exploration of what interested you alongside what was required. And finally, most importantly, you were encouraged to challenge.

The private system is nowhere near as 'rotten' as the state. I'd happily work 3 jobs to send my kids to private school ahead of the state system. There is literally no logical argument that stacks up to favour state over private.

On the subject of ideological or political bias, that's always been present in education. Just depends on when as to whether its left leaning, right leaning or centrist – Universities are certainly going the wrong way, there needs to be more of a balance, or at least less censuring from the left. It's also hard to cover every single topic, people are always going to moan that kids aren't being taught the right thing, or not enough of something, or whatever. It's thankless. There has to be some filtering.

Plus, the main topics studied are of course usually guided by the exam content, so it's not necessarily a school specific issue. Talk to the exam board.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (22 Nov 2019 10.46am)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 10.54am
Originally posted by Badger11 I don't expect you to agree but for once Labour is correct about removing charitable status from private schools. It's a tax break for the better off and whilst I think private education is great it is only for those lucky to afford it. Charitable status should only be allowed if any person regardless of income could attend, not sure how that would work. Abolishing private schools is ridiculous. Agree with this. Having peacocks and llamas and building sanctuaries with golden kangaroos does nothing to justify the use of charitable status. Edited by SW19 CPFC (22 Nov 2019 10.55am) Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 10.54am

Originally posted by Badger11

I don't expect you to agree but for once Labour is correct about removing charitable status from private schools. It's a tax break for the better off and whilst I think private education is great it is only for those lucky to afford it.

Charitable status should only be allowed if any person regardless of income could attend, not sure how that would work.

Abolishing private schools is ridiculous.

Agree with this. Having peacocks and llamas and building sanctuaries with golden kangaroos does nothing to justify the use of charitable status.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (22 Nov 2019 10.55am)

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 11.04am
Originally posted by SW19 CPFC Agree with this. Having peacocks and llamas and building sanctuaries with golden kangaroos does nothing to justify the use of charitable status. Edited by SW19 CPFC (22 Nov 2019 10.55am) We know that it isn't going to happen as it would essentially be Tories harming their own base......but as a long term step towards a better national education system it's perhaps the bullet that needs biting. Still, it's not going to happen until Britain turns socialist and I can't deny that it's punishing successful parents......So any decent person should be a little conflicted over the whole thing. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 11.04am

Originally posted by SW19 CPFC

Agree with this. Having peacocks and llamas and building sanctuaries with golden kangaroos does nothing to justify the use of charitable status.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (22 Nov 2019 10.55am)

We know that it isn't going to happen as it would essentially be Tories harming their own base......but as a long term step towards a better national education system it's perhaps the bullet that needs biting.

Still, it's not going to happen until Britain turns socialist and I can't deny that it's punishing successful parents......So any decent person should be a little conflicted over the whole thing.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays 22 Nov 19 11.07am
Originally posted by palace_in_frogland Definitely “on the spectrum.” Still would, though. Horn-wise she has something traditionally sexy and British about her. But she reeks of 'daddy' issues.....you can see it a mile off. Bad parenting. Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 11.09am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

22 Nov 19 11.07am

Originally posted by palace_in_frogland

Definitely “on the spectrum.”

Still would, though.

Horn-wise she has something traditionally sexy and British about her.

But she reeks of 'daddy' issues.....you can see it a mile off.

Bad parenting.

Edited by Stirlingsays (22 Nov 2019 11.09am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Invalid user 2019 22 Nov 19 11.24am
Originally posted by Badger11 Well here's one good reason not to vote Labour. [Link] Lilly Allen breaks down in tears and sobs it's the best manifesto I have ever seen? Lilly darling just exactly how many manifestos have you seen? She's using a lame augmented reality filter on her phone. They aren't actual tears, as I'm sure those publishing the story knew. All this sort of things reveals is that when actual 'deep fakes' start popping up with any frequency, we're f***ed . Edited by dollardays (22 Nov 2019 11.26am)
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Invalid user 2019

22 Nov 19 11.24am

Originally posted by Badger11

Well here's one good reason not to vote Labour.

[Link]

Lilly Allen breaks down in tears and sobs it's the best manifesto I have ever seen?

Lilly darling just exactly how many manifestos have you seen?

She's using a lame augmented reality filter on her phone. They aren't actual tears, as I'm sure those publishing the story knew.

All this sort of things reveals is that when actual 'deep fakes' start popping up with any frequency, we're f***ed .

Edited by dollardays (22 Nov 2019 11.26am)

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W12 22 Nov 19 11.37am
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I see sense in private schools for the seriously high IQ...130 and above for example. Outside of that it's always been hard to justify state help in private schools for those with enough to afford it....private schools without help is a possibility. I totally understand why hard working parents would wish to advantage their children. We see politicians from all party tribes doing it. It's not just about the education and better behaviour it's about the networking. Then again, the system as it is doesn't help the meritocratic system as money rather than sheer ability plays its role That said, any changes to private provision can only be done pretty slowly. The state system struggles to cope with the ridiculous population increases as it is. Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Nov 2019 5.09pm) Apart from the obvious question of teacher quality, class sizes, facilities etc my main motivation for me would to not expose my children to the violence and intimidation now prevalent at state schools in London. There are good state schools in the big city's but they are few and far between and mainly colonized by the middle classes as a way of saving huge amounts of money. I was told by someone well to do yesterday that they PTA had raised so much money for her childrens state primary school that they didn't need it all and didn't know what to do with it. These are the same kind of people who will move house next to a good state school in order to get to the front of the queue. That's socialism in action.
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W12 22 Nov 19 11.37am

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I see sense in private schools for the seriously high IQ...130 and above for example.

Outside of that it's always been hard to justify state help in private schools for those with enough to afford it....private schools without help is a possibility.

I totally understand why hard working parents would wish to advantage their children. We see politicians from all party tribes doing it. It's not just about the education and better behaviour it's about the networking.

Then again, the system as it is doesn't help the meritocratic system as money rather than sheer ability plays its role

That said, any changes to private provision can only be done pretty slowly. The state system struggles to cope with the ridiculous population increases as it is.

Edited by Stirlingsays (21 Nov 2019 5.09pm)

Apart from the obvious question of teacher quality, class sizes, facilities etc my main motivation for me would to not expose my children to the violence and intimidation now prevalent at state schools in London. There are good state schools in the big city's but they are few and far between and mainly colonized by the middle classes as a way of saving huge amounts of money. I was told by someone well to do yesterday that they PTA had raised so much money for her childrens state primary school that they didn't need it all and didn't know what to do with it. These are the same kind of people who will move house next to a good state school in order to get to the front of the queue. That's socialism in action.

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Badger11 Beckenham 22 Nov 19 11.49am
Originally posted by dollardays She's using a lame augmented reality filter on her phone. They aren't actual tears, as I'm sure those publishing the story knew. All this sort of things reveals is that when actual 'deep fakes' start popping up with any frequency, we're f*ed . Edited by dollardays (22 Nov 2019 11.26am) Good spot I hadn't noticed that, still it makes it even more bizarre as she made and posted it herself. I guess she is just trying to say how happy she is with Corbyn. And your correct I have seen p*.s and you have to look twice before you realise its a fake how long before the technology is so good you can't tell. Prince Andrew has already said that photo is a fake, who knows? Will that become the standard response from those caught out, it's not me. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 22 Nov 19 11.49am

Originally posted by dollardays

She's using a lame augmented reality filter on her phone. They aren't actual tears, as I'm sure those publishing the story knew.

All this sort of things reveals is that when actual 'deep fakes' start popping up with any frequency, we're f***ed .

Edited by dollardays (22 Nov 2019 11.26am)

Good spot I hadn't noticed that, still it makes it even more bizarre as she made and posted it herself. I guess she is just trying to say how happy she is with Corbyn.

And your correct I have seen p***.s and you have to look twice before you realise its a fake how long before the technology is so good you can't tell.

Prince Andrew has already said that photo is a fake, who knows? Will that become the standard response from those caught out, it's not me.

One more point

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Badger11 Beckenham 22 Nov 19 11.51am
Originally posted by W12 Apart from the obvious question of teacher quality, class sizes, facilities etc my main motivation for me would to not expose my children to the violence and intimidation now prevalent at state schools in London. There are good state schools in the big city's but they are few and far between and mainly colonized by the middle classes as a way of saving huge amounts of money. I was told by someone well to do yesterday that they PTA had raised so much money for her childrens state primary school that they didn't need it all and didn't know what to do with it. These are the same kind of people who will move house next to a good state school in order to get to the front of the queue. That's socialism in action. Exactly how many liberals say my kid goes to a state school, yup one that every parent would kill to get their kids into. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 22 Nov 19 11.51am

Originally posted by W12

Exactly how many liberals say my kid goes to a state school, yup one that every parent would kill to get their kids into.

One more point

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 12.08pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays We know that it isn't going to happen as it would essentially be Tories harming their own base......but as a long term step towards a better national education system it's perhaps the bullet that needs biting. Still, it's not going to happen until Britain turns socialist and I can't deny that it's punishing successful parents......So any decent person should be a little conflicted over the whole thing. To be clear I don't agree with abolishing them but I do agree with removing or at least reducing the benefits of charitable status. Technically any inclusive approach punishes more successful people (myself included) but ultimately that is a short term hit for a longer term gain. It's also a question of extremes – a gradual rebalancing vs. a full on destruction of status makes more sense. Whatever happens, you're never going to eradicate the class system, but you can make it less biased and extreme than it has grown to be. When people say 'others should not be punished for being successful' I agree that they should not be 'punished', as that implies severe full on socialist ideology. But they should be made to contribute more than they currently do – the wealth and success they have is not 100% because of hard work. The system has a large say in magnifying the effect of their success beyond what is reasonable. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 12.08pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Still, it's not going to happen until Britain turns socialist and I can't deny that it's punishing successful parents......So any decent person should be a little conflicted over the whole thing.

To be clear I don't agree with abolishing them but I do agree with removing or at least reducing the benefits of charitable status. Technically any inclusive approach punishes more successful people (myself included) but ultimately that is a short term hit for a longer term gain. It's also a question of extremes – a gradual rebalancing vs. a full on destruction of status makes more sense. Whatever happens, you're never going to eradicate the class system, but you can make it less biased and extreme than it has grown to be.

When people say 'others should not be punished for being successful' I agree that they should not be 'punished', as that implies severe full on socialist ideology. But they should be made to contribute more than they currently do – the wealth and success they have is not 100% because of hard work. The system has a large say in magnifying the effect of their success beyond what is reasonable.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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SW19 CPFC Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 12.14pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Exactly how many liberals say my kid goes to a state school, yup one that every parent would kill to get their kids into. Another reason I can't be arsed with the whole move house to get Johnny into a 'good' school debacle. I'd rather have the freedom to live where I want and eliminate all the stupid circus dross that goes with the farce that is locational bias. Besides, the money spent on relocating and the premium paid on the house purchase to facilitate such a thing could pay for several years of private education. Spend some time on your childs home learning environment, make sure they attend a half decent nursery and primary so you can set yourself up to be in the best position to achieve discount via scholarship or if means tested, bursary. W12 makes the point about violence, and I suppose in inner city states this is of course true – but lets not pretend the culture within private schools is all rosy. It's a cutthroat world, just in a psychological and status sense rather than physical. Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.
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SW19 CPFC

Addiscombe West 22 Nov 19 12.14pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Exactly how many liberals say my kid goes to a state school, yup one that every parent would kill to get their kids into.

Another reason I can't be arsed with the whole move house to get Johnny into a 'good' school debacle. I'd rather have the freedom to live where I want and eliminate all the stupid circus dross that goes with the farce that is locational bias. Besides, the money spent on relocating and the premium paid on the house purchase to facilitate such a thing could pay for several years of private education.

Spend some time on your childs home learning environment, make sure they attend a half decent nursery and primary so you can set yourself up to be in the best position to achieve discount via scholarship or if means tested, bursary.

W12 makes the point about violence, and I suppose in inner city states this is of course true – but lets not pretend the culture within private schools is all rosy. It's a cutthroat world, just in a psychological and status sense rather than physical.

Did you know? 98.0000001% of people are morons.

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Invalid user 2019 22 Nov 19 12.48pm
Originally posted by Badger11 Good spot I hadn't noticed that, still it makes it even more bizarre as she made and posted it herself. I guess she is just trying to say how happy she is with Corbyn. And your correct I have seen p***.s and you have to look twice before you realise its a fake how long before the technology is so good you can't tell. Prince Andrew has already said that photo is a fake, who knows? Will that become the standard response from those caught out, it's not me. Yes it was an odd thing to her to post, and an own goal in terms of it would inevitably be used. Like her Dad though, she's never one to shy away from attention! As for Prince Andrew, you never know, but he did seem to go 'all in' with Epstein. You're right that it's the only thing he can say about that photo really. He certainly wishes it wasn't really anyway . I expect Epstein had enough real photos and footage or the rich and famous to make headlines for a year!
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Invalid user 2019

22 Nov 19 12.48pm

Originally posted by Badger11

Good spot I hadn't noticed that, still it makes it even more bizarre as she made and posted it herself. I guess she is just trying to say how happy she is with Corbyn.

And your correct I have seen p***.s and you have to look twice before you realise its a fake how long before the technology is so good you can't tell.

Prince Andrew has already said that photo is a fake, who knows? Will that become the standard response from those caught out, it's not me.

Yes it was an odd thing to her to post, and an own goal in terms of it would inevitably be used. Like her Dad though, she's never one to shy away from attention!

As for Prince Andrew, you never know, but he did seem to go 'all in' with Epstein. You're right that it's the only thing he can say about that photo really. He certainly wishes it wasn't really anyway . I expect Epstein had enough real photos and footage or the rich and famous to make headlines for a year!

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