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Bias against Trump
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 Stirlingsays  08 Jan 18 8.26pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
It's bluster, pure and simple, because the 1st amendment says, amongst other things: "Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press". Only the courts can change the treatment of libel, and only within the constrains of this amendment and the centuries of legal precedent therefrom. Libel is actually a libertarian paradise: we are all free to say what we want but we're not free from legal action by anyone inappropriately harmed by what we say. Edited by Ray in Houston (08 Jan 2018 8.17pm) 'inappropriately harmed'? Lets not forget the freedom to offend is important....not harass so that people can't get away from your comments but also that you can't shut up opinion or humour just because you don't like it. I agree that Trump looking to change libel laws would not be a good thing at all.....not that I think he'd have much chance anyway. I'd also add that mainstream media outlets are not fair themselves and have been using any tool at their disposal to restrict and demonise alternative news outlets to themselves. And I'm not just talking about idiots writing click bait news.....as we saw recently for example with the Trump 'Gorilla channel'. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jan 2018 8.27pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Ray in Houston  Houston 08 Jan 18 8.34pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'inappropriately harmed'? Lets not forget the freedom to offend is important....not harass so that people can't get away from your comments but also that you can't shut up opinion or humour just because you don't like it. I agree that Trump looking to change libel laws would not be a good thing at all.....not that I think he'd have much chance anyway. I'd also add that mainstream media outlets are not fair themselves and have been using any tool at their disposal to restrict and demonise alternative news outlets to themselves. And I'm not just talking about idiots writing click bait news.....as we saw recently for example with the Trump 'Gorilla channel'.
As to the "freedom to offend" that you hold dear, there is nothing to stop anyone from being offensive. However, if you do say what you feel, you have to allow everyone else to say what they feel about what you said. You don't get to pontificate into a vacuum. So, offend away, by STFU about oppression when someone calls you on it. Because expecting protection from a backlash to your offensive comments is expecting suppression of free speech. It's a door that swings both ways.
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Stirlingsays 08 Jan 18 8.41pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
The Trump gorilla channel was a spoof. As to the "freedom to offend" that you hold dear, there is nothing to stop anyone from being offensive. However, if you do say what you feel, you have to allow everyone else to say what they feel about what you said. You don't get to pontificate into a vacuum. So, offend away, by STFU about oppression when someone calls you on it. Because expecting protection from a backlash to your offensive comments is expecting suppression of free speech. It's a door that swings both ways. A spoof that many people were evidently too stupid to understand and spread all over the Internet.....there will be people around now who still believe it.....so spoof or fake news....what's the difference? It's a dangerous area to get involved with. As for the freedom to offend swinging both ways...unavoidable harassment is a middle area here ...But I agree. I admire the US on their laws in these areas. Libel should be about defamation based upon provable lies and not about how 'insulted' someone is. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jan 2018 8.42pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Ray in Houston Houston 08 Jan 18 8.57pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
A spoof that many people were evidently too stupid to understand and spread all over the Internet.....there will be people around now who still believe it.....so spoof or fake news....what's the difference? It's a dangerous area to get involved with. As for the freedom to offend swinging both ways...unavoidable harassment is a middle area here ...But I agree. I admire the US on their laws in these areas. Libel should be about defamation based upon provable lies and not about how 'insulted' someone is.
Edited by Ray in Houston (08 Jan 2018 8.57pm)
We don't do possession; we do defense and attack. Everything else is just wa**ing with a football. |
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| Stirlingsays 08 Jan 18 9.13pm |
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Originally posted by Ray in Houston
Edited by Ray in Houston (08 Jan 2018 8.57pm) Nope, I was just making the point that this stuff comes from all sides. We are currently suffering attempts to stifle alternative news from left wing media organizations such as Twitter, YouTube and FB. None of it is positive and I support the libertarianism that the US is built upon.....regardless of its politics. The marketplace of ideas should be allowed to operate. I don't support silencing progressives....far from it. Debate is the field on which politics should be played. Edited by Stirlingsays (08 Jan 2018 9.14pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| DanH SW2 09 Jan 18 9.51am |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Nope, I was just making the point that this stuff comes from all sides. We are currently suffering attempts to stifle alternative news from left wing media organizations such as Twitter, YouTube and FB. None of it is positive and I support the libertarianism that the US is built upon.....regardless of its politics. The marketplace of ideas should be allowed to operate. I don't support silencing progressives....far from it. Debate is the field on which politics should be played. How do you feel about the mysterious goings on of the HOL over the last 24 hours?
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| Midlands Eagle 09 Jan 18 10.28am |
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Originally posted by DanH
How do you feel about the mysterious goings on of the HOL over the last 24 hours? Please stick to the topic
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| DanH SW2 09 Jan 18 10.52am |
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Originally posted by Midlands Eagle
Please stick to the topic But all topics where people try and start to discuss it are deleted. Bit militant innit? Doing a good job if you want to try and drive long standing posters away.
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| DanH SW2 09 Jan 18 10.59am |
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Originally posted by DanH
But all topics where people try and start to discuss it are deleted. Bit militant innit? Doing a good job if you want to try and drive long standing posters away. And to keep it on topic: Trump is still a megalomaniac weirdo who scares the life out of me.
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| Stirlingsays 09 Jan 18 12.52pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
And to keep it on topic: Trump is still a megalomaniac weirdo who scares the life out of me. Are you 'literally' still shaking? All that was hyperbolic......as for scary...haven't you noticed the state of the world? Look at what he's walked into with NK, ISIS, Russia in Syria and China building up.....the previous incumbents had hardly been doing a good job. But I agree....he's ego is up there worthy or ridicule.....a lot of the very rich are like that.....and as we know, he isn't interested in being liked but is obsessed with being criticized....he has a chip the size of Liverpool. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jan 2018 2.24pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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pefwin  Where you have to have an English ... 09 Jan 18 2.20pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
How do you feel about the mysterious goings on of the HOL over the last 24 hours? Checking other HOL posts, Nick's red card rescinded or hidden unlike other red cards?
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| Stirlingsays 09 Jan 18 2.33pm |
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Originally posted by DanH
How do you feel about the mysterious goings on of the HOL over the last 24 hours?
I regard it as a difficult situation. I've asked for compromise but I like the mods who have been attacked and I realise that we don't see the sh1t that they have to deal with behind the scenes.....all giving their time voluntary to work on this site. It is a shame that we have had some flounces from good posters but the criticisms directed at mods by some has reached hyperbolic levels. I imagine at least some of our malcontents are at the bbs now. Hopefully at some point people like Jamie will come back. News and politics will carry on at the Hol and the left will be represented. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Jan 2018 2.38pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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