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 Rudi Hedman  Caterham 26 May 14 1.16pm |
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UKIP will brush up its manifesto over the next month or 2. Anyone with a modicum of sense knows they will. What's going to be more interesting is how they target Labour voters. It won't take too much, just a couple of sentences from the Nigel of all socio-economic groups will do it.
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| The White Horse 26 May 14 1.17pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 1.12pm
Quote The White Horse at 26 May 2014 1.08pm
Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 1.04pm
Quote The White Horse at 26 May 2014 12.27pm
Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 12.02pm
He is generalising about race. Generalising about race = prejudice. I disagree. It's all about intent isn't it? Whether the generalisation is actually an attempt to denigrate or not. If a Boots in Croydon realises it's not selling much sun cream this summer, they can probably conclude that this is because higher black populations in the area are less likely to feel it's necessary. Generalisation about race, sure, but not "prejudice". Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 12.02pm
Prejudice is something you and your ilk have accused UKIP of repeatedly and yet it appears that the left are able to do this. However, when you point it out, it appears, from your perspective, that it is an intelligent piece of commentary as opposed to a piece of prejudice against a group of people he has aimed comments at previously. Interesting perspective Horsey. It is an intelligent piece of commentary, more useful than the facile claim that "BME people are far more likely to vote Labour". Some ethnic groups will generally be more likely to vote for Labour but others not, so it's worth looking at how sub-groups of BME voters act differently. If Ken has made insensitive comments about jews before (maybe you could link me to an Andrew Gilligan piece about it) then they may be an ill-judged group to use in such an example, but one of the best ways to find out why a particular ethnic group votes a particular way is to look at examples where this tendency has changed. Chinese people might be an interesting example because in the UK there are a significant number who are probably having more success in education, employment and business than they would have been when immigrants first arrived. But obviously they've come from an area with an, erm, 'strong left-wing tradition'. Please. He has made numerous comments directed at Jews. Why? If we're going to go through this again (as I'm sure we did in 2012) can you either save us time and find the thread in an archive somewhere or provide some actual allegations/links to Gilligan's pieces?
How is asking for more detail about his "comments directed at Jews" a diversionary tactic. I can't respond to vague accusations. I fancied making a joke, but decided to invite discussion. I think i made the wrong choice.
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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| The White Horse 26 May 14 1.24pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 1.04pm
Quote The White Horse at 26 May 2014 12.27pm
Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 12.02pm
He is generalising about race. Generalising about race = prejudice. I disagree. It's all about intent isn't it? Whether the generalisation is actually an attempt to denigrate or not. If a Boots in Croydon realises it's not selling much sun cream this summer, they can probably conclude that this is because higher black populations in the area are less likely to feel it's necessary. Generalisation about race, sure, but not "prejudice". Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 12.02pm
Prejudice is something you and your ilk have accused UKIP of repeatedly and yet it appears that the left are able to do this. However, when you point it out, it appears, from your perspective, that it is an intelligent piece of commentary as opposed to a piece of prejudice against a group of people he has aimed comments at previously. Interesting perspective Horsey. It is an intelligent piece of commentary, more useful than the facile claim that "BME people are far more likely to vote Labour". Some ethnic groups will generally be more likely to vote for Labour but others not, so it's worth looking at how sub-groups of BME voters act differently. If Ken has made insensitive comments about jews before (maybe you could link me to an Andrew Gilligan piece about it) then they may be an ill-judged group to use in such an example, but one of the best ways to find out why a particular ethnic group votes a particular way is to look at examples where this tendency has changed. Chinese people might be an interesting example because in the UK there are a significant number who are probably having more success in education, employment and business than they would have been when immigrants first arrived. But obviously they've come from an area with an, erm, 'strong left-wing tradition'. Please. He has made numerous comments directed at Jews. Why? Because he loves the hummus at Gaby's Deli and keeps running out of pitta?
"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee |
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Slimey Toad  Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 26 May 14 2.45pm |
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I can't understand why they (and political commentators) say they have won the election. What exactly have they won? The right to be called the biggest UK voting block in a largely toothless Euro Parliament? Maybe they should bang that drum to reinforce their argument about the undemocratic nature of the 'European project'.
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pefwin  Where you have to have an English ... 26 May 14 2.45pm |
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I notice the BNP'S vote collapsed, I wonder where it went?
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| matt_himself Matataland 26 May 14 2.49pm |
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Quote pefwin at 26 May 2014 2.45pm
I notice the BNP'S vote collapsed, I wonder where it went?
Edited by matt_himself (26 May 2014 2.49pm)
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| pefwin Where you have to have an English ... 26 May 14 2.53pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 2.49pm
Quote pefwin at 26 May 2014 2.45pm
I notice the BNP'S vote collapsed, I wonder where it went?
Edited by matt_himself (26 May 2014 2.49pm) The same place as the Tories then, good old bed fellows, the green vote remained stable (they are anti Europe) while I assume disenchanted left wing lib-dems account for the massive increase in the labour vote. Personally I am all for stronger links with the likes of Epernay.
"Everything is air-droppable at least once." "When the going gets tough, the tough call for close air support." |
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| Slimey Toad Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 26 May 14 2.55pm |
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Quote Rudi Hedman at 26 May 2014 1.16pm
UKIP will brush up its manifesto over the next month or 2. Anyone with a modicum of sense knows they will. What's going to be more interesting is how they target Labour voters. It won't take too much, just a couple of sentences from the Nigel of all socio-economic groups will do it. What UKIP will try and do is seriously engage in putting forward properly thought-out economic and social policies (not insisting taxi drivers get suited and booted for example) whilst keeping their anti-Euro and 'uncontrolled' immigration USPs to the fore. Labour voters are going to need more than a photo opportunity of NF holding a cloudy pint of ale (he should have asked to have the barrel changed).
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| Rubin 26 May 14 3.20pm |
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Quote pefwin at 26 May 2014 2.53pm
Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 2.49pm
Quote pefwin at 26 May 2014 2.45pm
I notice the BNP'S vote collapsed, I wonder where it went?
Edited by matt_himself (26 May 2014 2.49pm) The same place as the Tories then, good old bed fellows, the green vote remained stable (they are anti Europe) while I assume disenchanted left wing lib-dems account for the massive increase in the labour vote. Personally I am all for stronger links with the likes of Epernay.
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 26 May 14 3.55pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 2.49pm
Quote pefwin at 26 May 2014 2.45pm
I notice the BNP'S vote collapsed, I wonder where it went?
Edited by matt_himself (26 May 2014 2.49pm)
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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Kermit8  Hevon 26 May 14 4.02pm |
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Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 11.38am
Quote Kermit8 at 26 May 2014 10.17am
Quote matt_himself at 26 May 2014 8.56am
Quote Kermit8 at 26 May 2014 8.49am
Geert Wilders expects Farage and UKIP to join up with "racist and anti-Semitic" far right groups rather than face isolationism within the EU Parliament even though at this moment Nige says he won't. For political expediency he does have a point does old Geert.
It is a complete non story. It is like me saying 'Gusset and IT teaching assistant Kermit should both embrace reality and drop their childish adherence to unworkable and outdated political ideology'. That is never going to happen. Neither will this.
2) That sentence will be coming back to haunt you should Geert have got this one right. Edited by Kermit8 (26 May 2014 10.17am) 1. The lady doth protest too much, me thinks;
2) Naïve. Politicians never lie, do they? Or do what it takes and shift for more power. 3) I haven't a clue what your increasingly befuddled mind is on about. Edited by Kermit8 (26 May 2014 4.13pm)
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| serial thriller The Promised Land 26 May 14 4.06pm |
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Thing that has started to piss me off is everyone saying 'I'm voting UKIP because the major parties don't listen to my views'. What that is essentially a euphemism for is 'Labour/the Tories/the Lib Dems won't completely shift their political ideologies to suit me'. Personally I think there is a lack of conviction politics in this country already without all the major parties scampering after the Eurosceptic vote. That's why the Labour Party are no longer a left-wing organisation anymore, nor are the Tories a real Conservative party. Because they have no backbone and pander to reactionary and transient public moods. Hence why you have Labour saying they will go even further with cuts than the Tories, whilst maintaining a laughable 'socialist' veil. UKIP are a relatively new party to mainstream politics and so them tearing up their previous manifesto and replacing it with an entirely new, more appealing one is seen as ok. Thus a party can support the renationalisation of the railways while advocating greater austerity and the escalation of the privatisation of the NHS, however the f*ck that works, but that will be a flaw to unpick for another day I feel. That's why I almost have a begrudging respect for the Lib Dems, at least they stuck by a suicidal pro-EU policy because they believed in it, rather than melting like the Tories in a risible attempt to procure a few more populist votes.
If punk ever happened I'd be preaching the law, instead of listenin to Lydon lecture BBC4 |
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