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Hrolf The Ganger 06 Feb 18 9.22pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Having political opinions about a poor government is not the same as intolerance/discrimination based on race/religion/gender/sexual orientation. Believing that increased freedoms for these things are forces for ill is strongly associated with leave voters... But it's not is it. It's based on the symptoms of poorly managed multi culture and increased population. And you can't group together all that you list like some homogeneous lump. That is ridiculous. There is little difference because both concerns are for quality of life. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (06 Feb 2018 9.23pm)
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Feb 18 9.41am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'Jobs first Brexit'....what a load of rot....meaningless waffle. Brexit will cause economic issues for around five to ten years. Anyone with an atom of sense knows that....so 'jobs first Brexit' is expedient nonsense. In Brexit People voted for immigration to be reduced. The EU wouldn't allow it so here we are. Nothing you say gives the Brexiters want we want. All you can do is complain about economic fears.....yet the majority voted leave because we don't like the EU....it kind of supersedes everything else. Just by your weak response to my question we can see that if you had anything to do with these things that you'd be getting a ton of sh1t as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Feb 2018 6.49pm)
I'm actually complaining about the bungling of Brexit. I don't believe Brexit is destined for great success unless it's properly planned and managed, and this has not to date happened. I think it's totally reasonable to anticipate negative impacts if it is mismanaged and carried out with a lack of planning. I don't, whatever you seem to think, believe that it's a project that would be doomed to failure under any circumstances and should be reversed "at all costs". It just seems to me that to allow the current shambles to continue simply to see through Brexit is totally misguided and damaging. The whole process has been a joke and a shining example of how not to carry out such a significant national project. Some people just won't listen to anything that remotely criticises the direction of travel unless it comes out of the mouth of Ayatolah Rees-Mogg. Just today the public accounts committee has criticised the government of a significant deficit in planning for Brexit. This kind of thing would get you sacked in business. There are 313 workstreams. When I worked on a merger of a division of a FTSE 250 company and a Fortune 500 company we had 11 workstreams and it took over 18 months of planning from conceptions to completion. The committee’s deputy chairman, leave-backing Tory MP Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, said Brexit was a “complicated task with the potential to become a damaging and unmanageable muddle”. “It is concerning that government departments still have so far to go to put their plans into practice. [The] real world will not wait for the government to get its house in order,” he said.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Feb 18 9.55am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
'Jobs first Brexit'....what a load of rot....meaningless waffle. Brexit will cause economic issues for around five to ten years. Anyone with an atom of sense knows that....so 'jobs first Brexit' is expedient nonsense. In Brexit People voted for immigration to be reduced. The EU wouldn't allow it so here we are. Nothing you say gives the Brexiters want we want. All you can do is complain about economic fears.....yet the majority voted leave because we don't like the EU....it kind of supersedes everything else. Just by your weak response to my question we can see that if you had anything to do with these things that you'd be getting a ton of sh1t as well. Edited by Stirlingsays (06 Feb 2018 6.49pm) I don't recall that option being on my ballot paper. Saying the EU wouldn't allow it is showing your lack of knowledge on this subject. The right to reside is only applicable for those who work, study or who are self sufficient after three months of initial residence. Permanent residence is only available after 5 years. People have a right to be physically in the UK, but can only benefit from residency if they meet the conditions. It would be perfectly possible to reduce immigration by regulating work and pay properly and stop companies from carrying out shoddy practices that effectively push out native workers in favour of cheaper European labour. The idea that leaving the EU will stop these kind of practices and immigration is wrong. The tools were already there. The government and previous ones just choose not to use them. Handy guide on EU rules on free movement: [Link]
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Feb 18 10.02am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
Or maybe I am keeping an open mind on the outcome, rather than rushing to make hysterical judgements, driven by those with obvious political intentions? Your view is your view. Respect others whom have made the decision to judge the outcome when it happens, not to presume that it is a ‘disaster’ before the trade deal has been negotiated. You'd rather fiddle while Rome burns? This is the principal of unripe time. The time to make a decision on how this process should be run is now. Leaving it is too dangerous. I understand this principal and why people leave difficult decisions until they are too late. I would hope that the Tories could see past their own self interests on this one and get rid of May.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Feb 18 10.03am | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
For the second time, what does ‘jobs first Brexit’ mean in practical terms? I've already explained it. You must have missed it.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 07 Feb 18 10.04am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
But it's not is it. It's based on the symptoms of poorly managed multi culture and increased population. And you can't group together all that you list like some homogeneous lump. That is ridiculous. There is little difference because both concerns are for quality of life. Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (06 Feb 2018 9.23pm) As I pointed out 80% of people who believe social liberalism and feminism are forces for ill voted for Brexit. So it clearly has something to do with it for some people.
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Hrolf The Ganger 07 Feb 18 10.45am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
As I pointed out 80% of people who believe social liberalism and feminism are forces for ill voted for Brexit. So it clearly has something to do with it for some people. The problem is with the question. How are we defining liberalism and feminism?
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matt_himself Matataland 07 Feb 18 11.01am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I've already explained it. You must have missed it. It’s meaningless. Your explanation is vague and I have asked for a clarification. You will believe anything spoon fed to you by Labour.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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matt_himself Matataland 07 Feb 18 11.04am | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
You'd rather fiddle while Rome burns? This is the principal of unripe time. The time to make a decision on how this process should be run is now. Leaving it is too dangerous. I understand this principal and why people leave difficult decisions until they are too late. I would hope that the Tories could see past their own self interests on this one and get rid of May. No. You don’t understand negotiation nor the tactics that the EU will employ. You are again demonstrating your nativity and political bias. I am no supporter of May, when the Boris/JRM dream ticket comes in I will be happy but you don’t show our hand.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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steeleye20 Croydon 07 Feb 18 11.15am | |
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'jobs first Britain' is just a meaningless platitude. Looking back I noticed how in fact it can work out exactly the opposite, so mass unemployment must follow !!!! How about 'land fit for heroes' and especially 'peace in our time'. 'a country working for all' is a cast-iron guarantee of the opposite.
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Stirlingsays 07 Feb 18 1.20pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I don't recall that option being on my ballot paper. Saying the EU wouldn't allow it is showing your lack of knowledge on this subject. The right to reside is only applicable for those who work, study or who are self sufficient after three months of initial residence. Permanent residence is only available after 5 years. People have a right to be physically in the UK, but can only benefit from residency if they meet the conditions. It would be perfectly possible to reduce immigration by regulating work and pay properly and stop companies from carrying out shoddy practices that effectively push out native workers in favour of cheaper European labour. The idea that leaving the EU will stop these kind of practices and immigration is wrong. The tools were already there. The government and previous ones just choose not to use them. Handy guide on EU rules on free movement: [Link] Don't lecture me on EU foreigners in the UK and residency and their attitudes towards it. For years I taught many EU youngsters in college classes where they comprised half the class. You either don't know what you're talking about because you were never on the front line or are just being disingenuous. Once they are here they have any number of ways of ensuring they stay but you just play dumb or don't know. Most who go back did and do so because they wanted to.....not because of our requirements. The fact that I even have to type that out......oh well.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Stirlingsays 07 Feb 18 1.23pm | |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
No. You don’t understand negotiation nor the tactics that the EU will employ. You are again demonstrating your nativity and political bias. I am no supporter of May, when the Boris/JRM dream ticket comes in I will be happy but you don’t show our hand.
They are soft centered fifth columnists.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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