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The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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 Stirlingsays  04 Feb 18 1.10pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I agree. I don't think leaving the EU will do anything to solve that problem and staying in the EU doesn't stop the government from doing something to solve the problem. The current likely soft Brexit will do nothing at all. I disagree with you....unless a soft Brexit is similarly soft on EU immigration......in which case Ukip will make its return. While the problem of worker's wages is multi faceted there is no doubt that a reduction in low skilled immigration will eventually lead to less downward pressure. That's just following the logic of supply and demand.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 04 Feb 18 1.26pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I disagree with you....unless a soft Brexit is similarly soft on EU immigration......in which case Ukip will make its return. While the problem of worker's wages is multi faceted there is no doubt that a reduction in low skilled immigration will eventually lead to less downward pressure. That's just following the logic of supply and demand. True, totally agree. I don't think there is much political will within the government to end such immigration though. Having proper living wages and regulation is probably the way to go IMO.
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| matt_himself Matataland 04 Feb 18 10.00pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Corbyn appears to be coming round to the idea following legal advice that his renationalisation program would not be illegal under EU law. Labour are not in power. Let's not live in an alternative reality. You seem to be resigned to a soft brexit then and happy to accept it. There is not the electoral majority for hard Brexit and May knows it but she knows her job depends on her pretending the cake and eat deal is possible. I'm surprised you're so willing to go along with the status quo. The referendum was clearly flawed. It's like a decision tree where all we've done is move down one branch to the next node and now no-one in government can work out which branch we should go down next. You’re twisting words. I am not willing to except anything other than a clean Brexit but you seem to have the notion that negotiation means showing your hand all at once. That is not how things are done. Don’t let off Corbyn. If you are criticising the government, saying that ‘it is not the job of the opposition to have Brexit policies’ is rubbish. They must have a policy and their policy is non existent. You know he has been ideologically opposed to the EU his whole political life. Why would he change now? Edited by matt_himself (04 Feb 2018 10.01pm)
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 05 Feb 18 9.02am |
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You are fixated about JC but he is not in power.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Feb 18 9.04am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
You’re twisting words. I am not willing to except anything other than a clean Brexit but you seem to have the notion that negotiation means showing your hand all at once. That is not how things are done. Don’t let off Corbyn. If you are criticising the government, saying that ‘it is not the job of the opposition to have Brexit policies’ is rubbish. They must have a policy and their policy is non existent. You know he has been ideologically opposed to the EU his whole political life. Why would he change now? Edited by matt_himself (04 Feb 2018 10.01pm) Their policy is a jobs first Brexit however that is achieved. I believe Corbyn is ambivalent towards the EU and is mainly concerned with delivering lower inequality and more secure better paid jobs for the many. Brexit will be anything other than clean with the current government. I'm surprised you don't see that.
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| matt_himself Matataland 05 Feb 18 11.15am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Their policy is a jobs first Brexit however that is achieved. I believe Corbyn is ambivalent towards the EU and is mainly concerned with delivering lower inequality and more secure better paid jobs for the many. Brexit will be anything other than clean with the current government. I'm surprised you don't see that. What does ‘jobs first Brexit’ mean? The government said today that we are leaving the Customs Union: Pressure from Boris, Gove and JRM will push this to a clean Brexit. Surprised you cannot see that.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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| Stirlingsays 05 Feb 18 11.23am |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
You are fixated about JC but he is not in power. You are fixated about Brexit but it hasn't happened.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays 05 Feb 18 11.37am |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
True, totally agree. I don't think there is much political will within the government to end such immigration though. Having proper living wages and regulation is probably the way to go IMO. Mmmm....I'm half and half with that view. I think the conservatives have certainly got the message from their grass roots on immigration and even seen that a reduction in immigration is popular with a significant minority of Labour voters. So I don't see an ignoring of this issue not immigration rates anything like before post Brexit. As for the economic impact.....well the ponzi scheme of hastening the increasing population rate (which has the success of more old age people already) and relying upon incoming cheap youth labour as a way of countering it is nothing but a short term solution that long term worsens the end result. The only solutions to this problem are to be found in computer automation and changes to capitalism. It will be a balancing act until those......However, Japan has had this problem for decades, because it refused immigration as a way of solving it....and Japan is a richer country than us....being 3rd on the world GDP scale...at nearly double our GDP. However I agree that the political encouragement and will for short term solutions is a flaw within democracy in general....and that an'internationalist' mindset within Britain's political classes is almost zealot like. So it's going to be interesting.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| steeleye20 Croydon 05 Feb 18 11.41am |
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'a group of states that have agreed to charge the same import duties as each other and usually to allow free trade between themselves'. That is a customs union. What is there not to like, it appears what we are negotiating to get anyway.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Feb 18 11.46am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
What does ‘jobs first Brexit’ mean? The government said today that we are leaving the Customs Union: Pressure from Boris, Gove and JRM will push this to a clean Brexit. Surprised you cannot see that. Boris, Gove and JRM have 3 votes out of 650. Surprised you cannot see that.
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| CambridgeEagle Sydenham 05 Feb 18 11.53am |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
What does ‘jobs first Brexit’ mean? The government said today that we are leaving the Customs Union: Pressure from Boris, Gove and JRM will push this to a clean Brexit. Surprised you cannot see that. It means whatever solution is best for protecting jobs in the UK, enhancing working conditions and workers' rights, lowering inequality and improving productivity across the UK. It also means providing well funded and good quality public services and improved infrastructure, plus increased access to education and training to equip people for work in a modern digital and high tech economy. To invest in British industries and provide jobs in industries that drive productivity and exports. Not slash and burn and and pretend it will all be merriment and laughter once the borders and closed and we've signed trade deals with Djibouti and Outer Mongolia to be able to sell them the things we no longer manufacture. The Tories put the horse before the cart and seem to think by signing any trade deal we'll magically increase exports by 40%. It's like saying if you make someone a member of the Royal Society they will then be a great scientist, even though all they have right now is a B in biology A-level. Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Feb 2018 9.55am) Edited by CambridgeEagle (06 Feb 2018 12.10pm)
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| matt_himself Matataland 05 Feb 18 11.38pm |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
It means whatever solution is best for protecting jobs in the UK, enhancing working conditions and workers' rights, lowering inequality and improving productivity across the UK. It also means providing well funded and good quality public services and improved infrastructure, plus increased access to education and training to equip people for work in a modern digital and high tech economy. To invest in British industries and provide jobs in industries that drive productivity and exports. Not slash and burn and blame brown people and pretend it will all be merriment and laughter once the borders and closed and we've signed trade deals with Djibouti and Outer Mongolia to be able to sell them the things we no longer manufacture. The Tories put the horse before the cart and seem to think by signing any trade deal we'll magically increase exports by 40%. It's like saying if you make someone a member of the Royal Society all they have is a B in biology A-level. ‘...and blame brown people....’ Accusing Brexiteers of racism. Very poor. You have lost me. Go bother someone else with your inaccurate and insulting stereotypes.
"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02 |
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