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steeleye20 Croydon 02 Feb 18 11.17am
Originally posted by matt_himself No it’s not. If we were in a ‘Common Market’ with our European partners, then I would have voted to stay in that. However, we are in a ‘Union’ that is attempting ecomonic, political and military union against the democratic will of the people. We as a nation voted against being used from Brussels by a group of unelected commissioners. If our European partners were invaded or attacked, we would defend them as that is entirely different from being locked into the US of E against our will. There is no such thing as a United states of Europe as you very well know, you are just desperately living in a brexit fantasy that has no basis in real life.
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steeleye20

Croydon 02 Feb 18 11.17am

Originally posted by matt_himself

No it’s not.

If we were in a ‘Common Market’ with our European partners, then I would have voted to stay in that.

However, we are in a ‘Union’ that is attempting ecomonic, political and military union against the democratic will of the people.

We as a nation voted against being used from Brussels by a group of unelected commissioners.

If our European partners were invaded or attacked, we would defend them as that is entirely different from being locked into the US of E against our will.

There is no such thing as a United states of Europe as you very well know, you are just desperately living in a brexit fantasy that has no basis in real life.

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matt_himself Matataland 02 Feb 18 11.22am
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle I obviously disagree with that. But I do think he'd be better than Davis/May. Electoral maths mean hard Brexit is hard to envisage. We need a second referendum where the choices are in or hard out (not just out and then we'll sort it out after what that actually means). Then there can be no argument and no messing about. We don’t need a second referendum. We need parliament to approve the deal, or no deal, and move forward. The referendum has happened. People decided what they wanted. Deal with it. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 02 Feb 18 11.22am

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

I obviously disagree with that. But I do think he'd be better than Davis/May.

Electoral maths mean hard Brexit is hard to envisage.

We need a second referendum where the choices are in or hard out (not just out and then we'll sort it out after what that actually means). Then there can be no argument and no messing about.

We don’t need a second referendum. We need parliament to approve the deal, or no deal, and move forward.

The referendum has happened. People decided what they wanted. Deal with it.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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matt_himself Matataland 02 Feb 18 11.23am
Originally posted by steeleye20 There is no such thing as a United states of Europe as you very well know, you are just desperately living in a brexit fantasy that has no basis in real life. What is my Brexit fantasy? Saying that I would have backed staying in the Commkn Market as it was? Yes, how isolationist that point of view is. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 02 Feb 18 11.23am

Originally posted by steeleye20

There is no such thing as a United states of Europe as you very well know, you are just desperately living in a brexit fantasy that has no basis in real life.

What is my Brexit fantasy?

Saying that I would have backed staying in the Commkn Market as it was?

Yes, how isolationist that point of view is.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Feb 18 11.36am
Originally posted by matt_himself We don’t need a second referendum. We need parliament to approve the deal, or no deal, and move forward. The referendum has happened. People decided what they wanted. Deal with it. You're living in a fantasy. If they had decided what they wanted then why has the government still not announced what their plans are? Why are there still wranglings over soft vs hard brexit? There is no clear plan and the government is deeply divided. You say approve the deal - what deal? There is no deal. The government has no idea what deal it even wants, other than some sort of halfway cake and eat it unicorn scenario. The deficiencies in the planning for and execution of the referendum has left us in limbo and without a clear mandated direction. Your version of leaving the EU is not the same as others and therein lies the issue.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Feb 18 11.36am

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Originally posted by matt_himself

We don’t need a second referendum. We need parliament to approve the deal, or no deal, and move forward.

The referendum has happened. People decided what they wanted. Deal with it.

You're living in a fantasy. If they had decided what they wanted then why has the government still not announced what their plans are? Why are there still wranglings over soft vs hard brexit? There is no clear plan and the government is deeply divided. You say approve the deal - what deal? There is no deal. The government has no idea what deal it even wants, other than some sort of halfway cake and eat it unicorn scenario.

The deficiencies in the planning for and execution of the referendum has left us in limbo and without a clear mandated direction.

Your version of leaving the EU is not the same as others and therein lies the issue.

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steeleye20 Croydon 02 Feb 18 11.39am
Originally posted by matt_himself What is my Brexit fantasy? Saying that I would have backed staying in the Commkn Market as it was? Yes, how isolationist that point of view is. The United States of Europe as I said is your fantasy, there is no such thing.
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steeleye20

Croydon 02 Feb 18 11.39am

Originally posted by matt_himself

What is my Brexit fantasy?

Saying that I would have backed staying in the Commkn Market as it was?

Yes, how isolationist that point of view is.

The United States of Europe as I said is your fantasy, there is no such thing.

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matt_himself Matataland 02 Feb 18 12.00pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 The United States of Europe as I said is your fantasy, there is no such thing. At the moment yes but it will happen in future years and you knew what I meant. Before the referendum, Nick Clegg said that talk of a combined EU army was rubbish yet it is happening. The opposition leader in Germany has openly called for a Federal Europe. The EU brings his all about by stealth and ignoring the will of people. When Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty, they forced agreement upon them. Open your eyes. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 02 Feb 18 12.00pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

The United States of Europe as I said is your fantasy, there is no such thing.

At the moment yes but it will happen in future years and you knew what I meant.

Before the referendum, Nick Clegg said that talk of a combined EU army was rubbish yet it is happening.

The opposition leader in Germany has openly called for a Federal Europe.

The EU brings his all about by stealth and ignoring the will of people. When Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty, they forced agreement upon them.

Open your eyes.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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steeleye20 Croydon 02 Feb 18 12.08pm
It is very obvious why Mrs Thatcher was so against referendums. They are poison and this has ended up with half the country having hardly any representation in parliament. if the country has to decide whether to leave finally, it should be at a general election. Then the people decide and the make-up of parliament accurately reflects that decision. Otherwise a festering divide that will go on for years perhaps decades?
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steeleye20

Croydon 02 Feb 18 12.08pm

It is very obvious why Mrs Thatcher was so against referendums.

They are poison and this has ended up with half the country having hardly any representation in parliament.

if the country has to decide whether to leave finally, it should be at a general election.

Then the people decide and the make-up of parliament accurately reflects that decision.

Otherwise a festering divide that will go on for years perhaps decades?

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steeleye20 Croydon 02 Feb 18 12.12pm
Originally posted by matt_himself At the moment yes but it will happen in future years and you knew what I meant. Before the referendum, Nick Clegg said that talk of a combined EU army was rubbish yet it is happening. The opposition leader in Germany has openly called for a Federal Europe. The EU brings his all about by stealth and ignoring the will of people. When Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty, they forced agreement upon them. Open your eyes. 'At the moment yes' As you now admit, there is no United States of Europe.
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steeleye20

Croydon 02 Feb 18 12.12pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

At the moment yes but it will happen in future years and you knew what I meant.

Before the referendum, Nick Clegg said that talk of a combined EU army was rubbish yet it is happening.

The opposition leader in Germany has openly called for a Federal Europe.

The EU brings his all about by stealth and ignoring the will of people. When Ireland rejected the Lisbon Treaty, they forced agreement upon them.

Open your eyes.

'At the moment yes'

As you now admit, there is no United States of Europe.

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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 02 Feb 18 12.14pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 It is very obvious why Mrs Thatcher was so against referendums. They are poison and this has ended up with half the country having hardly any representation in parliament. if the country has to decide whether to leave finally, it should be at a general election. Then the people decide and the make-up of parliament accurately reflects that decision. Otherwise a festering divide that will go on for years perhaps decades? One of the things that disgusts me about the current Tory party is their view that Theresa May should continue to deliver Brexit and then she must go as she's useless and a terrible leader. Basically they are saying she's good enough for the British public and to carry through the most important thing to happen to the country since WWII, but she's not good enough for the Tory party. The time to make that decision was on 9th June 2017 not 29th March 2019. I'm amazed these ardent Brexit nuts aren't trying to get rid of her now. They must know she's a block to a hard Brexit and incapable of delivering a good outcome for anyone. Anyone keen on hard Brexit should be desperate for May to go and for another election/referendum that would provide a true mandate for hard Brexit.
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CambridgeEagle

Sydenham 02 Feb 18 12.14pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

It is very obvious why Mrs Thatcher was so against referendums.

They are poison and this has ended up with half the country having hardly any representation in parliament.

if the country has to decide whether to leave finally, it should be at a general election.

Then the people decide and the make-up of parliament accurately reflects that decision.

Otherwise a festering divide that will go on for years perhaps decades?

One of the things that disgusts me about the current Tory party is their view that Theresa May should continue to deliver Brexit and then she must go as she's useless and a terrible leader. Basically they are saying she's good enough for the British public and to carry through the most important thing to happen to the country since WWII, but she's not good enough for the Tory party. The time to make that decision was on 9th June 2017 not 29th March 2019.

I'm amazed these ardent Brexit nuts aren't trying to get rid of her now. They must know she's a block to a hard Brexit and incapable of delivering a good outcome for anyone. Anyone keen on hard Brexit should be desperate for May to go and for another election/referendum that would provide a true mandate for hard Brexit.

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matt_himself Matataland 02 Feb 18 12.26pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 'At the moment yes' As you now admit, there is no United States of Europe. I didn’t say there was. Are you broken? "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 02 Feb 18 12.26pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

'At the moment yes'

As you now admit, there is no United States of Europe.

I didn’t say there was.

Are you broken?

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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matt_himself Matataland 02 Feb 18 12.30pm
Originally posted by CambridgeEagle One of the things that disgusts me about the current Tory party is their view that Theresa May should continue to deliver Brexit and then she must go as she's useless and a terrible leader. Basically they are saying she's good enough for the British public and to carry through the most important thing to happen to the country since WWII, but she's not good enough for the Tory party. The time to make that decision was on 9th June 2017 not 29th March 2019. I'm amazed these ardent Brexit nuts aren't trying to get rid of her now. They must know she's a block to a hard Brexit and incapable of delivering a good outcome for anyone. Anyone keen on hard Brexit should be desperate for May to go and for another election/referendum that would provide a true mandate for hard Brexit. The fact is that the Tory party disgusts you full stop, so the passive aggressive points made above betray a greater, anti-Tory, agenda. You are partisan and are attempting to use what you portray as a reasoned assessment to bring people to your view that Brexit should be stopped at all costs. I would have more respect for you if you admitted that. "That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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matt_himself

Matataland 02 Feb 18 12.30pm

Originally posted by CambridgeEagle

The fact is that the Tory party disgusts you full stop, so the passive aggressive points made above betray a greater, anti-Tory, agenda.

You are partisan and are attempting to use what you portray as a reasoned assessment to bring people to your view that Brexit should be stopped at all costs.

I would have more respect for you if you admitted that.

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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steeleye20 Croydon 02 Feb 18 12.34pm
Originally posted by matt_himself I didn’t say there was. Are you broken? 'locked into the US of E against our will.' From your post.
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steeleye20

Croydon 02 Feb 18 12.34pm

Originally posted by matt_himself

I didn’t say there was.

Are you broken?

'locked into the US of E against our will.'

From your post.

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