Trump would have definitely left as well.

He would have left late last year if his military establishment hadn't been dishonest. Maybe Trump's implementation would have been just as bad. We don't know...it didn't happen.

If this disaster had happened under Trump I can assure you I'd have been just as angry.....I hate military incompetence as it cuts to the core.

But the implementation of this has been the Biden administration's. All the decisions have been made by them: Trump is the past....just an occasionally talking head....though it's criminal that he's censored from much of the wider public.

Raab is talking out of his backside. If they didn't consider this a possibility when rapid advances have been a seen both in Syria and elsewhere in falling governments then I really hold my head in my hands.

Do we truly have idiots leading us? I suspect the average soldier on the ground there could have said that this outcome was at least possible unless the withdrawn was properly planned for.....Even a layman knows that you need boots on the ground to firstly get your civilian people out first.....then the military are the last to go....with considerable air cover.

It's not exactly rocket science is it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2021 9.53pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

If it was just idiots, then it's forgivable. Lets be honest here, we are all more than capable of idiocy on multiple occasions and mea culpa.

But these people are not idiots. They are sociopaths. And venal with it. Willing to sell their souls early on in their careers for a shot at the top. And when they get there, already bought and paid for.

What we are seeing here is yet another example of chaos being created. Sending out even more waves of refugees and all heading West.

Iraq. Libya. Syria. And now Afghanistan. All situations deliberately destabilised. No other explanation makes any kind of plausible sense.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Wheres this leave Boris and Raab?

This is now about how they handle the incoming refugee crisis. Potentially now the defining issue of the next general election.

Throw in a possible (and I have deliberately italicised that because there are all kinds of scenarios to play out over the coming 6 months that could influence how this angle plays out) increase in Islamic fundamentalism terrorism/protests in the UK and you have a very volatile mix.

Suspect the military are probably running the show in terms of the evacuation and I would guess the politicians are more than willing to stand aside now given that the situation on the ground could get VERY messy, VERY quickly with some potentially awful scenarios playing out and they just want it all over with.

What might save them is that all Labour can do is make noises about welcoming with open arms as many refugees as can make it here. Probably save Johnson's career in doing so.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

Labour are a busted flush, nobody listens to them anymore, yes, you could be right regarding boris, unless someone,(richi), makes a challange over his handling of this, and the soon oncoming refugee crisis.

I reckon pretty safe, we have had high ranking members and former members of our military say what Biden did was a disaster, It put Britain in an incredibly difficult place where we would have been the only real military power left in the region, we had a hard enough time keeping Helmand province under control, If we had stayed/increased numbers its a war of attrition we would have lost.
Britain did actually try to form a coalition without the US but none of our allies were interested.
This is something we really should take note of with Russia looking towards the Balkans & China with Taiwan, our European allies have demonstrated they do not have the stomach for a fight.

Matov has it right, its what comes next whether Johnson survives or not.

Edited by Ouzo Dan (16 Aug 2021 10.37pm)

The mountains are calling & I must go.