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 Eaglecoops  CR3 08 Jul 21 11.08am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
In our system, that's how it works. It's our job to choose the best people available to represent us. Their job is to take the time to consult experts, study and understand the issues, and then come to wise collective decisions. It's not perfect, but it's better than leaving it to the winds of fortune and the influence of the likes of the Daily Mail. I never want to see a referendum used again to decide such a complex and vital issue. To ascertain local preferences, they are useful, but nothing more. And never binding. Only ever advisory.
So a referendum backed up by a landslide election result is not enough to convince you that the path followed was what the electorate wanted. Surely if the majority wanted back in then another party would have won?
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| steeleye20 Croydon 08 Jul 21 11.57am |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
So a referendum backed up by a landslide election result is not enough to convince you that the path followed was what the electorate wanted. Surely if the majority wanted back in then another party would have won? In the last General Election December 2019 the majority of votes cast were for remain/second referendum parties. As were the EU election that year.
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| Tom-the-eagle Croydon 08 Jul 21 12.25pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Whilst no-one can indeed foresee the future, you can predict a balance of probabilities. A pandemic was anticipated. The precise timing wasn't, but as the probability was high, the planning needed to be better. Not all outcomes are equally probable. It is possible that Brexit will be a roaring success, but it appears to be extremely unlikely. It is much more probable that we will suffer for many years as a result. That's not really disputed by even the most ardent Brexiteer. Of course, we won't be rejoining soon! No-one expects that. We need to mitigate the worse effects, and only when the mood changes start the argument for a rejoining strategy. As I have said many times a battle was lost, but that doesn't mean the war has been. You seem to think that people like me should just give up our principles! For decades the anti-EU brigade never stopped trying to undermine our relationship and get us out. You must expect nothing less from those who disagree. I am not the least bit miserable. Literally delusional.
"It feels much better than it ever did, much more sensitive." John Wayne Bobbit |
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| Eaglecoops CR3 08 Jul 21 12.50pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
In the last General Election December 2019 the majority of votes cast were for remain/second referendum parties. As were the EU election that year.
I see, so apart from WE's comment that there should never be any more referendums, and yours that there should also be total reform of the electoral system, everything is ok? In fact we might as well just keep changing everything until you get your way. Is there anything else you can think of holding back your party of choice other than being entirely unelectable?
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 08 Jul 21 4.02pm |
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as oft said, Remainers have the power of seeing into the future and making it their own facts, I am happy for all to be entitled to their own opinion, bit not I am also entitled to their opinion. When ever this comes up the Remain side are entrenched, and that's ok as long as the realisation that opinions are not facts is somehow recognised.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| Matov 08 Jul 21 5.24pm |
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What I rarely see is any case being made for us to rejoin. I would have thought that is there was so much support for us to reapply to rejoin the EU, then we would see a Progressive Alliance making the case. Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and so on all banding together and presenting a united front on the subject, given that it is clear that the R2's on here are so adamant there is majority support for such a move. Campaign on such a platform for 2024, win that election at a canter and then, probably by 2027, back in the fold of the loving embrace of the European Union. Except, outside of a few hard souls who are not even saving their deposits in by-elections, not a peep. Strange times.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| silvertop Portishead 08 Jul 21 6.13pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
What I rarely see is any case being made for us to rejoin. I would have thought that is there was so much support for us to reapply to rejoin the EU, then we would see a Progressive Alliance making the case. Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and so on all banding together and presenting a united front on the subject, given that it is clear that the R2's on here are so adamant there is majority support for such a move. Campaign on such a platform for 2024, win that election at a canter and then, probably by 2027, back in the fold of the loving embrace of the European Union. Except, outside of a few hard souls who are not even saving their deposits in by-elections, not a peep. Strange times. Ship sailed. If credible data emerges that clearly identifies being outside the EU has a substantively negative impact on every day lives, there may be the sort of moves you describe. Otherwise, I suspect R2 is holding a watching brief on maters and polls. BTW, I wish you Brexiteers would one in a while exercise your brains and not give fuel to your reputation of all being a bit dim. Libs and Greens yes. But Labour was divided down the middle and hemorrhaged zillions of votes in the last GE given its stance. Once again: it was and still isn't left v right.
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| silvertop Portishead 08 Jul 21 6.14pm |
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PS as was the Tory party
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Jul 21 11.35pm |
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Originally posted by Eaglecoops
So a referendum backed up by a landslide election result is not enough to convince you that the path followed was what the electorate wanted. Surely if the majority wanted back in then another party would have won? Forget the election result. People were just sick and tired of the whole process and wanted to see an end to it. Combined with a disunited opposition pushing a disjointed message, a slick marketing man's catchphrase, and you get Goofy again. That's more a confidence trick than wise decision-making. As has been pointed out even after all that more votes were cast for parties opposing Brexit than those in favour.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Jul 21 11.38pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
What I rarely see is any case being made for us to rejoin. I would have thought that is there was so much support for us to reapply to rejoin the EU, then we would see a Progressive Alliance making the case. Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and so on all banding together and presenting a united front on the subject, given that it is clear that the R2's on here are so adamant there is majority support for such a move. Campaign on such a platform for 2024, win that election at a canter and then, probably by 2027, back in the fold of the loving embrace of the European Union. Except, outside of a few hard souls who are not even saving their deposits in by-elections, not a peep. Strange times. Far too early. The pandemic is what is consuming all the attention. Once that's behind us and the reality of what Brexit has/will do has hit home and begun to really hurt, then the tide will slowly turn. A whisper at first, no doubt, but it will grow.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 08 Jul 21 11.43pm |
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Originally posted by Tom-the-eagle
Literally delusional. Which comment do you think is wrong and why? Even the most passionate Brexiteer, who has at least a modicum of understanding of the impacts, accepts we will suffer in economic terms. Their argument was primarily over "regaining control", not economics.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| HKOwen Hong Kong 09 Jul 21 11.16pm |
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Labour supporter calling Brexit voters dim, good strategy Originally posted by silvertop
Ship sailed. If credible data emerges that clearly identifies being outside the EU has a substantively negative impact on every day lives, there may be the sort of moves you describe. Otherwise, I suspect R2 is holding a watching brief on maters and polls. BTW, I wish you Brexiteers would one in a while exercise your brains and not give fuel to your reputation of all being a bit dim. Libs and Greens yes. But Labour was divided down the middle and hemorrhaged zillions of votes in the last GE given its stance. Once again: it was and still isn't left v right.
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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