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 ASCPFC  Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Feb 20 10.44am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I will doubtless get criticised for repetition but you are yet another who doesn't understand the way our democracy actually works. MP's are not public servants. They are our elected representatives, sent to Parliament to decide things for us. Our sole task is to choose who we want to represent us. After that they make their own decisions. They don't "serve the will of the people"! They determine what the people need and not what they want. If we don't like the results then we change them for others when we get the opportunity. The Supreme Court simply did it's job. It was asked to rule on a matter of law and it did. If it had not been asked it would not have been involved in any way. The Speaker also did his job. He protected the rights of Parliament and stood up for the back benchers. That he frustrated the government was obvious but that was their own fault as they attempted to over reach themselves and tried to sideline Parliament. It is Parliament is that is sovereign and not the government. No government, or PM, can do very much unless it can carry Parliament with it. Right now, with an 80 seat majority and a new bunch of compliant Tory MPs, that's easy but the fact remains. It's Parliament, and not the government, which is the ultimate authority. You have repeated this many times. It doesn't make it any more correct. Think carefully about your statement, actually consider other viewpoints for a change. Take your argument - if MPs do not serve the public - then who exactly?
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 Hrolf The Ganger  17 Feb 20 11.17am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I will doubtless get criticised for repetition but you are yet another who doesn't understand the way our democracy actually works. MP's are not public servants. They are our elected representatives, sent to Parliament to decide things for us. Our sole task is to choose who we want to represent us. After that they make their own decisions. They don't "serve the will of the people"! They determine what the people need and not what they want. If we don't like the results then we change them for others when we get the opportunity. The Supreme Court simply did it's job. It was asked to rule on a matter of law and it did. If it had not been asked it would not have been involved in any way. The Speaker also did his job. He protected the rights of Parliament and stood up for the back benchers. That he frustrated the government was obvious but that was their own fault as they attempted to over reach themselves and tried to sideline Parliament. It is Parliament is that is sovereign and not the government. No government, or PM, can do very much unless it can carry Parliament with it. Right now, with an 80 seat majority and a new bunch of compliant Tory MPs, that's easy but the fact remains. It's Parliament, and not the government, which is the ultimate authority. We have moved on and Brexit won. Waffle and disagree all you like. It makes no difference.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 20 11.34am |
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Originally posted by ASCPFC
You have repeated this many times. It doesn't make it any more correct. Think carefully about your statement, actually consider other viewpoints for a change. Take your argument - if MPs do not serve the public - then who exactly? Do you have a problem with the truth? Considering other viewpoints doesn't change the truth. It's not that I don't understand your viewpoint. It's just that it isn't true. The only reason I repeat it is because people like you continue to argue the point! MPs don't "serve" anybody. They "serve" the country's needs. Together they form our Parliament which is the sovereign power in the UK. We choose them so we can change them if they don't perform to our satisfaction so from that perspective alone they need to be mindful if their overriding priority is to keep a job. For those who put their duty above self interest (as those brave MPs did in the last Parliament) they will ignore any such pressure and concentrate on what they conclude is in the best interests of their constituents and the country as a whole. As I have repeatedly said our MPs are NOT delegates. They are our representatives and that fact completely changes what they must do and how they do it. The pity is that even some MPs don't actually understand this.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 20 11.45am |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
We have moved on and Brexit won. Waffle and disagree all you like. It makes no difference. What I wrote had nothing to do with Brexit per se. It was merely the background event which could just as easily been something else. What makes no difference, for a while at least, is the 80 seat majority that Corbyn's stupidity handed to Johnson. With such a majority he can cope with quite a large rebellion and still do whatever he wants. I hear whispers that such a rebellion may well be brewing over the coming budget with a bunch of traditional Tories unhappy with the spend, spend spend largesse being thrown at the north by the Prince of Darkness (Dominic Cummings) who has taken control of the Treasury.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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cryrst  The garden of England 17 Feb 20 2.10pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What I wrote had nothing to do with Brexit per se. It was merely the background event which could just as easily been something else. What makes no difference, for a while at least, is the 80 seat majority that Corbyn's stupidity handed to Johnson. With such a majority he can cope with quite a large rebellion and still do whatever he wants. I hear whispers that such a rebellion may well be brewing over the coming budget with a bunch of traditional Tories unhappy with the spend, spend spend largesse being thrown at the north by the Prince of Darkness (Dominic Cummings) who has taken control of the Treasury. Maybe the tories are taking a leaf out of Blair's book of office and buying a few votes.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 17 Feb 20 2.27pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Maybe the tories are taking a leaf out of Blair's book of office and buying a few votes. Blair didn't "buy" any votes. He moved Labour to the centre ground which is where most people reside. The current Tories are playing to the Labour voters in the north who backed them over Brexit but in so doing they may well alienate their southern base. They aren't aiming at the centre at all. I have been doing a little research on Dominic Cummings in the past few days as it seems that he is actually the driving force behind many of the current government trends. He is going to worry traditional Tories as his politics seem a pretty mixed bag to me. Much of it seems rooted in socialistic thinking rather than capitalism. His reasons for wanting us out of the EU had almost no overlap with what the majority were thinking. He is riding high right now but I think the knives will be getting sharpened, both in Whitehall and Westminster. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (17 Feb 2020 2.28pm)
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| nettletoneagle market rasen 17 Feb 20 3.22pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Harry Miller is next door neighbor and he is the most obnoxious, bigoted gobsh1te you could ever wish to meet. 54 year old men should refrain from climbing on their twitter soapbox Been following that case for a while now. Pleased he won because he has put a lot on the line for this. The most sinister part was this... He was told he had not committed a crime, but it would be recorded as a non-crime "hate incident". I believe the actual box that this was ticked against was called 'Crime-Non Crime.' And in the original call from the Police to him he was told to 'check his thinking'. A couple of interesting interviews about this out there but the implications were frightening including this 'non-crime' being disclosed in any future vetting checks for a variety of professions. Edited by nettletoneagle (17 Feb 2020 3.25pm)
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| ASCPFC Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 17 Feb 20 5.21pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Do you have a problem with the truth? Considering other viewpoints doesn't change the truth. It's not that I don't understand your viewpoint. It's just that it isn't true. The only reason I repeat it is because people like you continue to argue the point! MPs don't "serve" anybody. They "serve" the country's needs. Together they form our Parliament which is the sovereign power in the UK. We choose them so we can change them if they don't perform to our satisfaction so from that perspective alone they need to be mindful if their overriding priority is to keep a job. For those who put their duty above self interest (as those brave MPs did in the last Parliament) they will ignore any such pressure and concentrate on what they conclude is in the best interests of their constituents and the country as a whole. As I have repeatedly said our MPs are NOT delegates. They are our representatives and that fact completely changes what they must do and how they do it. The pity is that even some MPs don't actually understand this.
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 20 5.47pm |
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What is it with this guy, the thinking here is almost innocent. Instead of New Statesmen articles why don't you actually read the man's own website. It's often said that the left don't really understand the right. The 'right' as just as fractional as the 'left'. He actually thinks we don't know what Cummings is and what kind of Tory, he and Johnson are. No one on here believes that Cummings or Johnson are their 'men'. I certainly don't....yet these straw man arguments are always being made. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the positions that they think they are 'learning' about. Cummings and Johnson are just better than the alternatives on offer....it's as simple as that....It's the same Trump/Clinton dynamic. The real defining different isn't left and right, it's authoritarianism and libertarianism and the combinations that most people's beliefs center upon.....You pick your smelling salts and that's about it. Cummings is much more data driven than most and behind his anti EU motivations in an core belief in institutional adaptability much more than some heated nationalism that his opponents like to characterise. This core belief is a main reason why he rages against the EU. He knows that the centralisation of power within Brussels makes any delusions about change just that....a comfortable delusion.....Brussels is a political and economic oil tanker that's heading for rocks and can't change direction because there are 27 captains each pulling at the wheel....well about three main influences with 24 small nudges, but that's all it needs. I know that Cummings isn't the same as me....All that matters is that the path he wants to travel down is closer to mine than it is to those whose paths I deeply dislike. Edited by Stirlingsays (17 Feb 2020 7.32pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 17 Feb 20 7.16pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
What is it with this guy, the thinking here is almost innocent. Instead of New Statemen articles why don't you actually read the man's own website. It's often said that the left don't really understand the right. The 'right' as just as fractional as the 'left'. He actually thinks we don't know what Cummings is and what kind of Tory, he and Johnson are. No one on here believes that Cummings or Johnson are their 'men'. I certainly don't....yet these straw man arguments are always being made. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the positions that they think they are 'learning' about. Cummings and Johnson are just better than the alternatives on offer....it's as simple as that....It's the same Trump/Clinton dynamic. The real defining different isn't left and right, it's authoritarianism and libertarianism and the combinations that most people's beliefs center upon.....You pick your smelling salts and that's about it. Cummings is much more data driven than most and behind his anti EU motivations in an core belief in institutional adaptability much more than some heated nationalism that his opponents like to characterise. This core belief is a main realson why he rages against the EU. He knows that the centralisation of power within Brussels makes any delusions about change just that....a comfortable delusion.....Brussels is a political and economic oil tanker that's heading for rocks and can't change direction because there are 27 captains each pulling at the wheel....well about three main influences with 24 small nudges, but that's all it needs. I know that Cummings isn't the same as me....All that matters is that the path he wants to travel down is closer to mine than it is to those whose paths I deeply dislike.
Well done on another accurate post.
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| cryrst The garden of England 17 Feb 20 7.23pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Blair didn't "buy" any votes. He moved Labour to the centre ground which is where most people reside. The current Tories are playing to the Labour voters in the north who backed them over Brexit but in so doing they may well alienate their southern base. They aren't aiming at the centre at all. I have been doing a little research on Dominic Cummings in the past few days as it seems that he is actually the driving force behind many of the current government trends. He is going to worry traditional Tories as his politics seem a pretty mixed bag to me. Much of it seems rooted in socialistic thinking rather than capitalism. His reasons for wanting us out of the EU had almost no overlap with what the majority were thinking. He is riding high right now but I think the knives will be getting sharpened, both in Whitehall and Westminster. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (17 Feb 2020 2.28pm) The northern labour voters are not that.
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| Stirlingsays 17 Feb 20 7.26pm |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Well done on another accurate post. I tip my hat sir.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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