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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Oct 19 9.31am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle With all due respect I already knew that and it wasn't my question. Would you have supported Macmillan, Heath and Cameron with just as much "vim and vigour"? Indeed I have supported an array of Conservative PMs/leaders over the years with vim and vigour. At the end of the day I am a dyed-in-the-wool Tory and I have been more than willing to pound the streets in national and local elections as well as getting knee-deep in mud erecting boards in the fields.My support covers an array of activities including being a 'Teller' at the polling station. Edited by Willo (31 Oct 2019 9.33am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Oct 19 9.31am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

With all due respect I already knew that and it wasn't my question.

Would you have supported Macmillan, Heath and Cameron with just as much "vim and vigour"?

Indeed I have supported an array of Conservative PMs/leaders over the years with vim and vigour.

At the end of the day I am a dyed-in-the-wool Tory and I have been more than willing to pound the streets in national and local elections as well as getting knee-deep in mud erecting boards in the fields.My support covers an array of activities including being a 'Teller' at the polling station.

Edited by Willo (31 Oct 2019 9.33am)

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Oct 19 9.38am
Originally posted by georgenorman Labour's 'credible' deal would of course be remaining in the EU in all but name. Absolutely. Corbyn has been nurdling on about staying in the 'Customs market ' and 'Single market' which is basically remaining in the EU and I believe he has also mentioned 'Confirmatory referendum' on his deal. What will the question be ? Remain or Remain !!!!! On that note, I now have to depart to meet up with my Tory chums for electioneering purposes! Edited by Willo (31 Oct 2019 9.40am)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 31 Oct 19 9.38am

Originally posted by georgenorman

Labour's 'credible' deal would of course be remaining in the EU in all but name.

Absolutely.
Corbyn has been nurdling on about staying in the 'Customs market ' and 'Single market' which is basically remaining in the EU and I believe he has also mentioned 'Confirmatory referendum' on his deal. What will the question be ? Remain or Remain !!!!!

On that note, I now have to depart to meet up with my Tory chums for electioneering purposes!

Edited by Willo (31 Oct 2019 9.40am)

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steeleye20 Croydon 31 Oct 19 9.40am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle With all due respect I already knew that and it wasn't my question. Would you have supported Macmillan, Heath and Cameron with just as much "vim and vigour"? interesting you left someone out there, did you know women have the vote? 'That bloody woman'
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steeleye20

Croydon 31 Oct 19 9.40am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

With all due respect I already knew that and it wasn't my question.

Would you have supported Macmillan, Heath and Cameron with just as much "vim and vigour"?

interesting you left someone out there, did you know women have the vote?

'That bloody woman'

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Matov 31 Oct 19 9.50am
Despite my own desire for a GE, now that it is actually here all I feel is a real flatness. Because no matter who wins, it will be one of those b******s. MP's. Politicians. Who disgust me now. All I want is for us to leave the EU and I will vote accordingly (although where I live you could stick a chimp on a suit with a blue rosette and it will win) but once that has been achieved, reckon I will try and give up this political malarkey for good. Yes, Corbyn is a genuine nightmare option but the more I try to reason it out, I cannot have much more faith in Johnson. Throw in what is going with this stitch-up of the LFB over Grenfal where their only 'crime' was actually basing their response on the idea that the cladding was truly as flameproof as it was claimed (and I have no real dog in this fight. No family or friends as firemen, just the notion that I know a stitch-up when I see one) and my disgust for our entire system of Governance grows by the hour. I want a Johnson majority simply for the fact that it is the only one that offers any real chances of a credible Brexit happening. But beyond that? No. We need a revolution in terms of how this country is run. Because as it is, simply not fit for purpose. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.
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Matov

31 Oct 19 9.50am

Despite my own desire for a GE, now that it is actually here all I feel is a real flatness. Because no matter who wins, it will be one of those b******s. MP's. Politicians. Who disgust me now.

All I want is for us to leave the EU and I will vote accordingly (although where I live you could stick a chimp on a suit with a blue rosette and it will win) but once that has been achieved, reckon I will try and give up this political malarkey for good.

Yes, Corbyn is a genuine nightmare option but the more I try to reason it out, I cannot have much more faith in Johnson.

Throw in what is going with this stitch-up of the LFB over Grenfal where their only 'crime' was actually basing their response on the idea that the cladding was truly as flameproof as it was claimed (and I have no real dog in this fight. No family or friends as firemen, just the notion that I know a stitch-up when I see one) and my disgust for our entire system of Governance grows by the hour.

I want a Johnson majority simply for the fact that it is the only one that offers any real chances of a credible Brexit happening.

But beyond that? No. We need a revolution in terms of how this country is run. Because as it is, simply not fit for purpose.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

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YT Oxford 31 Oct 19 10.15am
Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle I remember those days very well. Thatcher was a necessary evil for a while. I thought she was an awful person but that doesn't mean I couldn't grudgingly admire some of her attributes. Dealing with the unions was always going to be done. It just happened to be on her watch that it happened. She was left in place far too long by the bunch of weak men standing behind her. Well certainly not by James Callaghan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock or John Smith!!! Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 31 Oct 19 10.15am

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I remember those days very well. Thatcher was a necessary evil for a while. I thought she was an awful person but that doesn't mean I couldn't grudgingly admire some of her attributes. Dealing with the unions was always going to be done. It just happened to be on her watch that it happened. She was left in place far too long by the bunch of weak men standing behind her.

Well certainly not by James Callaghan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock or John Smith!!!

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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steeleye20 Croydon 31 Oct 19 10.18am
Originally posted by Matov Despite my own desire for a GE, now that it is actually here all I feel is a real flatness. Because no matter who wins, it will be one of those b****s. MP's. Politicians. Who disgust me now. All I want is for us to leave the EU and I will vote accordingly (although where I live you could stick a chimp on a suit with a blue rosette and it will win) but once that has been achieved, reckon I will try and give up this political malarkey for good. Yes, Corbyn is a genuine nightmare option but the more I try to reason it out, I cannot have much more faith in Johnson. Throw in what is going with this stitch-up of the LFB over Grenfal where their only 'crime' was actually basing their response on the idea that the cladding was truly as flameproof as it was claimed (and I have no real dog in this fight. No family or friends as firemen, just the notion that I know a stitch-up when I see one) and my disgust for our entire system of Governance grows by the hour. I want a Johnson majority simply for the fact that it is the only one that offers any real chances of a credible Brexit happening. But beyond that? No. We need a revolution in terms of how this country is run. Because as it is, simply not fit for purpose. The labour manifesto of 2017 was the reason for their unexpected success, but on inspection it is far removed from revolution. People paying 3% more tax on incomes over 80k is not even Blairite. So lets have revolution this time please or at least a pretend one. Johnson credible? M it is 'do or die' day, glad you are not 'dead in a ditch'**.
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steeleye20

Croydon 31 Oct 19 10.18am

Originally posted by Matov

Despite my own desire for a GE, now that it is actually here all I feel is a real flatness. Because no matter who wins, it will be one of those b******s. MP's. Politicians. Who disgust me now.

Yes, Corbyn is a genuine nightmare option but the more I try to reason it out, I cannot have much more faith in Johnson.

I want a Johnson majority simply for the fact that it is the only one that offers any real chances of a credible Brexit happening.

But beyond that? No. We need a revolution in terms of how this country is run. Because as it is, simply not fit for purpose.

The labour manifesto of 2017 was the reason for their unexpected success, but on inspection it is far removed from revolution.

People paying 3% more tax on incomes over 80k is not even Blairite.

So lets have revolution this time please or at least a pretend one.

Johnson credible? M it is 'do or die' day, glad you are not 'dead in a ditch'.

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Badger11 Beckenham 31 Oct 19 10.23am
Originally posted by YT Well certainly not by James Callaghan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock or John Smith!!! Actually the real villain was Harold Wilson. In the late 1960's he and Barbara Castle proposed modest trade uniform reforms the union heavy mob threatened Wilson and he backed down. If those reforms, which were much weaker than the current laws, have been passed we may not have had the winter of discontent or even Thatcher. Thatcher was the necessary evil because her predecessors didn't have the guts to take on the unions. One more point
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Badger11

Beckenham 31 Oct 19 10.23am

Originally posted by YT

Well certainly not by James Callaghan, Michael Foot, Neil Kinnock or John Smith!!!

Actually the real villain was Harold Wilson. In the late 1960's he and Barbara Castle proposed modest trade uniform reforms the union heavy mob threatened Wilson and he backed down. If those reforms, which were much weaker than the current laws, have been passed we may not have had the winter of discontent or even Thatcher.

Thatcher was the necessary evil because her predecessors didn't have the guts to take on the unions.

One more point

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YT Oxford 31 Oct 19 10.24am
Originally posted by Badger11 I wondered when Gina Miller would pop up although I thought it would likely be a court hearing to determine the validity of having a GE? [Link] I am not outraged it is all very predictable although some might want to know where she is getting the money for this. Anyway she will be the first of many from all sides pushing the tactical vote angle. Apparently Farage has told his party they will target soft Labour seats and leave Tory euro sceptics along. This is likely to be the most tactical voting GE ever. According to the shadow justice secretary this morning, Labour will be banging on about how the "wealthy few" influence what goes on in this country. Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)
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Oxford 31 Oct 19 10.24am

Originally posted by Badger11

I wondered when Gina Miller would pop up although I thought it would likely be a court hearing to determine the validity of having a GE?

[Link]

I am not outraged it is all very predictable although some might want to know where she is getting the money for this. Anyway she will be the first of many from all sides pushing the tactical vote angle.

Apparently Farage has told his party they will target soft Labour seats and leave Tory euro sceptics along.

This is likely to be the most tactical voting GE ever.

According to the shadow justice secretary this morning, Labour will be banging on about how the "wealthy few" influence what goes on in this country.

Palace since 19 August 1972. Palace 1 (Tony Taylor) Liverpool 1 (Emlyn Hughes)

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Stirlingsays 31 Oct 19 10.31am
Look, I'm obviously on the right but even so I like some of Corbyn's policies....there are aspects of the far left that I respect....the parts that are honest. However, anyone with reason who watched the Labour conference this summer must have felt forced fed with fruitcake. A four-day week within 10 years? One which would have an average of 32 hours and come with no loss of pay? Fruitcake fantasy. They think we can get to net zero carbon emissions by 2030 without ruining the economy….All while apparently giving extra time off for menopausal women. Fruitcake fantasy. Uncontrolled immigration, free access to the NHS for the whole world, release all detainees, votes for anyone, from anywhere, with welfare benefits for everyone who makes it across the channel. Fruitcake with extra fruitcake. They worry and fear monger about the Tories and the NHS, which is fundamentally a funding problem yet have apparently no issues with putting Corbyn and co in charge of Trident and Britain’s contribution to NATO…..NATO, an institution, which he sees as a tool of western imperialism. Labour, run by Corbyn, aren’t a serious political force, they are more like a protest group, a load of NGOs, who think that throwing other people’s money at problems will solve them. If they actually got in it would resemble a collection of sixth form commies holding the reigns of power. In some sense it would fit with my love of the absurd, but after a month the amusement would wear off. Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Oct 2019 11.04am) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

31 Oct 19 10.31am

Look, I'm obviously on the right but even so I like some of Corbyn's policies....there are aspects of the far left that I respect....the parts that are honest.

However, anyone with reason who watched the Labour conference this summer must have felt forced fed with fruitcake.

A four-day week within 10 years? One which would have an average of 32 hours and come with no loss of pay?

Fruitcake fantasy.

They think we can get to net zero carbon emissions by 2030 without ruining the economy….All while apparently giving extra time off for menopausal women.

Fruitcake fantasy.

Uncontrolled immigration, free access to the NHS for the whole world, release all detainees, votes for anyone, from anywhere, with welfare benefits for everyone who makes it across the channel.

Fruitcake with extra fruitcake.

They worry and fear monger about the Tories and the NHS, which is fundamentally a funding problem yet have apparently no issues with putting Corbyn and co in charge of Trident and Britain’s contribution to NATO…..NATO, an institution, which he sees as a tool of western imperialism.

Labour, run by Corbyn, aren’t a serious political force, they are more like a protest group, a load of NGOs, who think that throwing other people’s money at problems will solve them. If they actually got in it would resemble a collection of sixth form commies holding the reigns of power.

In some sense it would fit with my love of the absurd, but after a month the amusement would wear off.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Oct 2019 11.04am)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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steeleye20 Croydon 31 Oct 19 10.36am
Originally posted by Badger11 Actually the real villain was Harold Wilson. In the late 1960's he and Barbara Castle proposed modest trade uniform reforms the union heavy mob threatened Wilson and he backed down. If those reforms, which were much weaker than the current laws, have been passed we may not have had the winter of discontent or even Thatcher. Thatcher was the necessary evil because her predecessors didn't have the guts to take on the unions. Right, 'in place of strife' from Barbara Castle. If only Wilson had not given in, it could have been so different.
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steeleye20

Croydon 31 Oct 19 10.36am

Originally posted by Badger11

Thatcher was the necessary evil because her predecessors didn't have the guts to take on the unions.

Right, 'in place of strife' from Barbara Castle.

If only Wilson had not given in, it could have been so different.

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Stirlingsays 31 Oct 19 11.08am
Originally posted by YT According to the shadow justice secretary this morning, Labour will be banging on about how the "wealthy few" influence what goes on in this country. Considering it's Labour....are you sure you spelt 'few' correctly there? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

31 Oct 19 11.08am

Originally posted by YT

According to the shadow justice secretary this morning, Labour will be banging on about how the "wealthy few" influence what goes on in this country.

Considering it's Labour....are you sure you spelt 'few' correctly there?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hrolf The Ganger 31 Oct 19 11.43am
Originally posted by YT According to the shadow justice secretary this morning, Labour will be banging on about how the "wealthy few" influence what goes on in this country. The sheer audacity of Corbyn to talk about people's this and people's that when he has spent the last three years denying the people what they voted for. And now he says we must trust the people in a second referendum. What an utter scumbag. I'm going to find it hard to stay calm through this.
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Hrolf The Ganger

31 Oct 19 11.43am

Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger

Originally posted by YT

According to the shadow justice secretary this morning, Labour will be banging on about how the "wealthy few" influence what goes on in this country.

The sheer audacity of Corbyn to talk about people's this and people's that when he has spent the last three years denying the people what they voted for.
And now he says we must trust the people in a second referendum.
What an utter scumbag.

I'm going to find it hard to stay calm through this.

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