Wow, so Catalonia have announced Independence today but Spain have refused it!

I remember there being Basque (North East Spain) separatists a few years ago wanting to break away, but have there been any Catalonian attacks over the years?

Things are going to get Messi in Spain :/ (lame pun intended).

Any Spanish/Catalan/Ex-Pat Palace fans there able to tell us the animosity/confusion amongst the people gente there?

Are there fascist Spanish right wingers ready for war and are there Catalonians for or against this?

Edited by eaglelad (27 Oct 2017 6.48pm)

There are also separatists in Galicia but relatively small in numbers

There still are a lot of Basque seperatists - its only ETA that have been reasonably quite in the last few years (largely due to arrests).

I suspect that denied political engagement and negotiation, Catalan nationalists will likely increasingly utilise militancy against the Spainish state, and that groups like ETA will start to re-appear and ally their cause with Catalonian independence.

Refusing to allow the referendum was a bad idea for Spain's central government, like the rise of Scottish Nationalism, an official state referendum would likely have been an effective means of establishing the degree of support Catalan independence has (bearing in mind that five or six years ago Catalan independence parties had minimal political support).

Otherwise, all that's going to happen, is that they state will render the voice of independence louder as they try to crack down on what has largely been a non-violent pursuit of democratic driven change (most of the violence has been through the Spanish states attempts to quell the referendum, and silence elected Catalonian officials).

The EU shouldn't intervene, its outside its political remit, it should pass the issue to the UN.

The Catalan government has basically carried out a cuop d'état, which has been followed up by a reactive coup d'état by Spain on the Autonomous Catalan Government.

They held an illegal referendum. That being said and as touched upon by Jamie, the most 'democratic' way would have been to allow a referendum. I believe it should be the whole union that votes though, not just the region, as this is affecting many many people. 1500 businesses have left Cataluyna including the two biggest Catalan banks. The car manufacturer Seat has its plant near Barcelona, they are considering moving back to Navarra in the north, this will again create a loss of jobs in the region of 11,000 just at the two plants, plus all the supply chain (of which I am one of many). One grievance is show big do you have to be to want to become a republic, what is stopping the Catalan regions of Lleida or Tarragona who neighbour the regions of Huesca/Zaragoza and France and Huesca/Valencia respectively saying we want to separate from Cataluña to protect our interests with our neighbours?

A good percentage of the people voting and those in the streets are under 25 and have hardly worked either because of the financial crisis and high unemployment in Spain or because they are students. I am not saying that the Catalans are undeserving of independence, they were independent 300 years ago, however I just believe they are hearing all the wrong arguments a la Brexit, and some of the home truths are being left out of the discussions.

Lastly, I think Cataluña could be a successful autonomous state, but it would probably take a decade or two to recover fully. They have no Fiscal tax office, no defence and would not be allowed to join the single market or EU for the foreseeable future, maybe never.

Plus Puigdemont has such a punchable face.

Catalonia is in an impossible situation, there is no way to have a legal referendum, so any ref is illegal. So even if its what the people want, how do they go about it?

What is not acceptable is "Well its what the people want but we cant give it to you, so...sorry...", that goes against the UN charter.

The annoying thing is if we were talking about some poor, African country, we would bbe all over this and calling it oppression, but if its in a nice, cultured place in Western Europe, somehow its fine to take away any road to self determination and smashing the eye socket of old ladies who want to vote to get away from a country that are prepared to smash the eye socket of people who want to vote...

Who thing has been horrifying to watch, those poor powerless people...

I get what you are saying Beanyboysmd, but as I said in an earlier post where does self determination start and end. What if my town decides to stay, why should an almost majority (last count 49.3% want independence) decide for the rest of us.
They're main gripe boils down to Money. That being said, and as much as I love this country, it has serious institutionalised racism, severe and in your face corruption and a good percentage still think of Franco as a saint.

I have a feeling that it is self imploding a tad and that there are absolutely no winners in this, bar maybe a few politicians.

Have I mentioned how Puigdemont has such a
punchable face?