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legaleagle 16 Mar 15 9.26pm | |
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Quote Stuk at 16 Mar 2015 4.02pm
Quote legaleagle at 16 Mar 2015 9.45am
The Aussie map of the world can also be interesting in terms of a different perspective from the traditional Euro-centric way of seeing the world,with Europe is a central position.. Edited by legaleagle (16 Mar 2015 9.46am)
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legaleagle 16 Mar 15 9.30pm | |
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Quote imbored at 16 Mar 2015 1.21pm
Quote reborn at 16 Mar 2015 12.49pm
At least they are doing something, more than 99% of people on this board, including the OP? I'd gladly be disproved of that by the way. Exactly. I've worked with charities and it's never those doing charity work that slag off people raising money for other causes. So you wind up with those not helping their neighbour or anyone elses for that matter, moaning about amazing and often life saving efforts. I've worked for a charity as a full time employee and some people seem to think that should also involve working full-time for nothing.The reality is,yes admin and staff costs eat up part of donations but most charity workers work for less than equivalent jobs in the private sector or even in the state sector.
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imbored UK 16 Mar 15 10.25pm | |
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Quote sitdownstandup at 16 Mar 2015 8.12pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 16 Mar 2015 1.03am
The thing is that IMO you will never be shown anything positive in the media when it comes to Africa. They are too used to showing hungry children with European doctors doing there best to help. Africa is a huge and diverse continent, even on world maps it is made too look smaller than it really is even though it is the second biggest continent in the world, it is always shown as just slightly bigger than South America despite being twice the size. It is made up of many, many different countries, with many different cultures and people of many different races and languages and shades of skin colour but it is all just lumped together. As a continent, many of it's countries are some of the best places in the world to invest. With growth rates for some, three times that of any European country, and many with growth rates higher than China but you would never know it. The reason why China invests so heavily in many African countries is that it is a good investment for them for many reasons, although not all good IMO. When you think of the benefits that many European countries have gained from the slave trade, echos of which can still be felt today in Africa and here, it is no wonder that we are able to call ourselves a developed country. All those pretty buildings you see when you go to Brugge were built on African blood and rubber, in an absolutely horrific manner. I remember reading a report a few years ago where a top London accountancy firm were asked to calculate the financial benefits of the slave trade. That figure came back as around 700 trillion dollars, more than ten times greater than global GDP. That is what African blood, sweat and tears has given to us and on this thread people moan about aid and debate why some and I say some Africa countries are poor. It's like beating someone and stealing their clothes and then arguing over whether to give them back a shoe. Edited by Mr Palaceman (16 Mar 2015 1.09am)
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Stirlingsays 16 Mar 15 10.32pm | |
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Quote imbored at 16 Mar 2015 10.25pm
Quote sitdownstandup at 16 Mar 2015 8.12pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 16 Mar 2015 1.03am
The thing is that IMO you will never be shown anything positive in the media when it comes to Africa. They are too used to showing hungry children with European doctors doing there best to help. Africa is a huge and diverse continent, even on world maps it is made too look smaller than it really is even though it is the second biggest continent in the world, it is always shown as just slightly bigger than South America despite being twice the size. It is made up of many, many different countries, with many different cultures and people of many different races and languages and shades of skin colour but it is all just lumped together. As a continent, many of it's countries are some of the best places in the world to invest. With growth rates for some, three times that of any European country, and many with growth rates higher than China but you would never know it. The reason why China invests so heavily in many African countries is that it is a good investment for them for many reasons, although not all good IMO. When you think of the benefits that many European countries have gained from the slave trade, echos of which can still be felt today in Africa and here, it is no wonder that we are able to call ourselves a developed country. All those pretty buildings you see when you go to Brugge were built on African blood and rubber, in an absolutely horrific manner. I remember reading a report a few years ago where a top London accountancy firm were asked to calculate the financial benefits of the slave trade. That figure came back as around 700 trillion dollars, more than ten times greater than global GDP. That is what African blood, sweat and tears has given to us and on this thread people moan about aid and debate why some and I say some Africa countries are poor. It's like beating someone and stealing their clothes and then arguing over whether to give them back a shoe. Edited by Mr Palaceman (16 Mar 2015 1.09am)
If the slave trade had never existed the situation would still be the same.....People conveniently forget all the black slavers as well. Also the slave trade is a long long time ago. In the modern world it doesn't excuse the underlying problems within Africa societies. Africa is coming....It's developing but it's still held back by core cultural problems related to institutional weakness, corruption and exploitation....Both internal and external. Just like the famous shag scene in Soulman, referring back to historical wrongs as a cause for the present is just an illusion. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Mar 2015 10.41pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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legaleagle 16 Mar 15 10.32pm | |
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Yes, good post IMO by Mr Palaceman. And if anyone wants to see some of those grand buildings built on blood money,go no further than Bristol or Liverpool as just two examples. And re China, yes not all good reasons indeed,me thinks they are in it in large part for the raw materials..same old story,new player. Edited by legaleagle (16 Mar 2015 10.33pm)
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imbored UK 16 Mar 15 11.10pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 16 Mar 2015 10.32pm
Quote imbored at 16 Mar 2015 10.25pm
Quote sitdownstandup at 16 Mar 2015 8.12pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 16 Mar 2015 1.03am
The thing is that IMO you will never be shown anything positive in the media when it comes to Africa. They are too used to showing hungry children with European doctors doing there best to help. Africa is a huge and diverse continent, even on world maps it is made too look smaller than it really is even though it is the second biggest continent in the world, it is always shown as just slightly bigger than South America despite being twice the size. It is made up of many, many different countries, with many different cultures and people of many different races and languages and shades of skin colour but it is all just lumped together. As a continent, many of it's countries are some of the best places in the world to invest. With growth rates for some, three times that of any European country, and many with growth rates higher than China but you would never know it. The reason why China invests so heavily in many African countries is that it is a good investment for them for many reasons, although not all good IMO. When you think of the benefits that many European countries have gained from the slave trade, echos of which can still be felt today in Africa and here, it is no wonder that we are able to call ourselves a developed country. All those pretty buildings you see when you go to Brugge were built on African blood and rubber, in an absolutely horrific manner. I remember reading a report a few years ago where a top London accountancy firm were asked to calculate the financial benefits of the slave trade. That figure came back as around 700 trillion dollars, more than ten times greater than global GDP. That is what African blood, sweat and tears has given to us and on this thread people moan about aid and debate why some and I say some Africa countries are poor. It's like beating someone and stealing their clothes and then arguing over whether to give them back a shoe. Edited by Mr Palaceman (16 Mar 2015 1.09am)
If the slave trade had never existed the situation would still be the same.....People conveniently forget all the black slavers as well. Also the slave trade is a long long time ago. In the modern world it doesn't excuse the underlying problems within Africa societies. Africa is coming....It's developing but it's still held back by core cultural problems related to institutional weakness, corruption and exploitation....Both internal and external. Just like the famous shag scene in Soulman, referring back to historical wrongs as a cause for the present is just an illusion. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Mar 2015 10.41pm) I don't think it's all or nothing really. Everything plays a part. People are good at keeping and hoarding wealth, families are good at it, nations are good at it. Just look at the class system. We are very often significantly defined by all that came many decades before us. Results of events we have no direct involvement with. That doesn't mean we can't do our best to elevate ourselves of course.
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Stirlingsays 16 Mar 15 11.26pm | |
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Quote imbored at 16 Mar 2015 11.10pm
I don't think it's all or nothing really. Everything plays a part. People are good at keeping and hoarding wealth, families are good at it, nations are good at it. Just look at the class system. We are very often significantly defined by all that came many decades before us. Results of events we have no direct involvement with. That doesn't mean we can't do our best to elevate ourselves of course.
The point is slave trade or no, Africa would still be in the same mess it is now.....It's problems are deep rooted. It's far too easy to point fingers at history and say 'there be the cause'. Frankly the thing that has held Africa back more than anything else is war and its corrupt leaders.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Mr Palaceman 17 Mar 15 6.43am | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 16 Mar 2015 10.32pm
Quote imbored at 16 Mar 2015 10.25pm
Quote sitdownstandup at 16 Mar 2015 8.12pm
Quote Mr Palaceman at 16 Mar 2015 1.03am
The thing is that IMO you will never be shown anything positive in the media when it comes to Africa. They are too used to showing hungry children with European doctors doing there best to help. Africa is a huge and diverse continent, even on world maps it is made too look smaller than it really is even though it is the second biggest continent in the world, it is always shown as just slightly bigger than South America despite being twice the size. It is made up of many, many different countries, with many different cultures and people of many different races and languages and shades of skin colour but it is all just lumped together. As a continent, many of it's countries are some of the best places in the world to invest. With growth rates for some, three times that of any European country, and many with growth rates higher than China but you would never know it. The reason why China invests so heavily in many African countries is that it is a good investment for them for many reasons, although not all good IMO. When you think of the benefits that many European countries have gained from the slave trade, echos of which can still be felt today in Africa and here, it is no wonder that we are able to call ourselves a developed country. All those pretty buildings you see when you go to Brugge were built on African blood and rubber, in an absolutely horrific manner. I remember reading a report a few years ago where a top London accountancy firm were asked to calculate the financial benefits of the slave trade. That figure came back as around 700 trillion dollars, more than ten times greater than global GDP. That is what African blood, sweat and tears has given to us and on this thread people moan about aid and debate why some and I say some Africa countries are poor. It's like beating someone and stealing their clothes and then arguing over whether to give them back a shoe. Edited by Mr Palaceman (16 Mar 2015 1.09am)
If the slave trade had never existed the situation would still be the same.....People conveniently forget all the black slavers as well. Also the slave trade is a long long time ago. In the modern world it doesn't excuse the underlying problems within Africa societies. Africa is coming....It's developing but it's still held back by core cultural problems related to institutional weakness, corruption and exploitation....Both internal and external. Just like the famous shag scene in Soulman, referring back to historical wrongs as a cause for the present is just an illusion. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Mar 2015 10.41pm)
Many in this country can look back and trace their history. I am fortunate in that I can trace my family history back more than a thousand years through my family name, written and oral history and knowledge of self is key, if you are to develop a strong future. It is important to know where you have come from and who you are. The effects of this knowledge can clearly be seen even the recent history of this country. We have a collective sense of who we are and this comes from the knowledge of our past and a shared historical experience. The “Stiff upper lip”, “The spirit of the Blitz”. “Britain’s, never, never, never shall be slaves” etc. These are ideas that some today would say are what it is to be British and there is a thought that we alone have given these values as a gift to the world. I have no real problem with that, as these perceived values rub off on the people and sometimes a sense of justice will develop from this type of collective thought. However, this way of thinking can also lead to feelings of superiority. The perception we have of ourselves today comes from the knowledge, true or perceived, of our understanding of past history. This leads to a collective “self-esteem”. In order for a person, nation or people to become truly great, discipline is required, discipline leads to self-respect and self-respect leads to courage. Courage is what is required to be great. In contrast, for slavery to be viable you must first destroy the slave’s self-esteem and history. The link that the slave has to their common thought and historic past must first be eradicated. Even their names must be taken and replaced with a name of the ”masters” choosing and all self-worth must be eroded. If a slave has any link to a better past they can never be truly enslaved as they would always draw on that past as an example and blueprint of what they can be as opposed to what their enslavers want them to be in order to exploit them. Acts of violence against slaves are used in order to placate, humiliate and subdue. The men were often beaten and killed in front of their women to imprint on the minds of those women that their men could not help them and were worthless. The modern day consequence of this is a low, historical self-esteem and when you look back at your history as one of control and subjugation, it is all the harder to break free of the mental chains that often bind tighter and longer than the physical chains of bondship. Obviously, this not the case of all Africans but as I said in my earlier post, Africa is often referred to as one big lump that is all the same, hence comments like “Blacks always f”ck it up”. This is not to say that this should be used as an excuse for not striving for better a future, or that nothing can be done, or even believing that a better future is not possible because of a historical disadvantage, no matter how great. However, when you look at the history of Africans, wherever they may be in the world, there is a theme and that is, whenever someone shows the courage to be great, they are stopped by those who have the most to lose from their awareness of self, as an awareness of self, leads to the desire for self-determination and self-determination leads to a loss of control for those that would seek to exploit, control and humiliate in order to benefit selfishly. Very obvious examples of Africans who have struggled against those who wish to exploit, are, of course, the likes of Martin Luther King (assassinated), Malcolm X (assassinated), Marcus Garvey, (Imprisoned). Paul Bogle (Hung by the then British Governor of Jamaica, who was later disgraced), Steve Biko (tortured for twenty two hours and beaten to death) and of course Nelson Mandela (imprisoned for 27 years). I could go on. Those mentioned above, whether you agree with the way they went about it or not, have something in common. An overwhelming desire to decide their own future and the courage to see out that dream, no matter what the personal cost was to themselves. The effects of colonial slavery in the modern era are IMO, evident even on this forum, in the attitudes of the posters on both sides of the debate. The minute there is a story about black people, good or bad; there are those who are the first to post. It may be “Racism Train Bloke Annoying Me”, or The African Cup of Nations, Jamaican independence, a black football federation, acts of racism by fans of other clubs, “Red Nose Day” and personally I was always switch off Red Nose Day programing. I don’t like the format or portrayal of Africa on those shows. I do not donate and chose other means to make a difference. But for me, I don’t think this thread was ever about Red Nose Day as such. It was an excuse to try and reinforce the old colonial stereotypes of old, by those who are fearful that everything is changing and we shouldn’t allow those we once ruled and in some cases still have power over to be free think or do things for themselves, in case they make mistakes or even God forbid get it right. The effects of slavery do still exist, in the minds of the decendants, of both the enslavers and the once enslaved.
"You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead" Stan Laurel |
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Stuk Top half 17 Mar 15 2.38pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 16 Mar 2015 9.26pm
Quote Stuk at 16 Mar 2015 4.02pm
Quote legaleagle at 16 Mar 2015 9.45am
The Aussie map of the world can also be interesting in terms of a different perspective from the traditional Euro-centric way of seeing the world,with Europe is a central position.. Edited by legaleagle (16 Mar 2015 9.46am)
Optimistic as ever |
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reborn 17 Mar 15 2.42pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 16 Mar 2015 9.30pm
Quote imbored at 16 Mar 2015 1.21pm
Quote reborn at 16 Mar 2015 12.49pm
At least they are doing something, more than 99% of people on this board, including the OP? I'd gladly be disproved of that by the way. Exactly. I've worked with charities and it's never those doing charity work that slag off people raising money for other causes. So you wind up with those not helping their neighbour or anyone elses for that matter, moaning about amazing and often life saving efforts. I've worked for a charity as a full time employee and some people seem to think that should also involve working full-time for nothing.The reality is,yes admin and staff costs eat up part of donations but most charity workers work for less than equivalent jobs in the private sector or even in the state sector. Exactly. Much easier to sit on your ass doing nothing, and moaning.
My username has nothing to do with my religious beliefs |
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jamiemartin721 Reading 17 Mar 15 3.12pm | |
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Quote nickgusset at 16 Mar 2015 3.43pm
Jamie... [Link] This sums up a large part of what charity is to me, a means by which social band aids are applied to problems that are the responsibility of the state to address directly. Instead its fobbed off onto charity, peoples guilt is esurred by giving a few quid now and then, and everyone pats themselves on the back - whilst directors of those charities earn very large salaries. I don't care if 'they take less' than they would in another field, the reality is at the top the wages are staggering, and well beyond what could be said to be sufficient for 'a luxurious life'. Self justification. If you'd 'far more' as a CEO elsewhere, why not take that CEO job, and give half the difference (or the difference) to charity? The audacity of Comic Relief and Live Aid, where you have people earning fortunes asking people to give, whilst those people attempt to boost their profile on the back of some 's**t entertainment skit' or 'knock off crappy single' represents one of the lowest forms of exploitation in history. And I hate the attitude of the once a year f**king Charity 'shennigans' where someone will 'do something crazy' like wear a dress and harras people into giving them money (they themselves rarely actually give, same as the c**ts on Comic Relief - giving their 'precious time'). F**k comic relief and all of those 'high profile' charities full of c-list scum looking to become b-list scum, and the s**ts who just 'give their time' and demand we give the money: f**k ALS Ice Bucket Challenges - We know you just want to feel special. F**k them all.
"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" |
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Stuk Top half 17 Mar 15 3.17pm | |
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You forgot to mention their needless choice to all have expensive central London offices. Which they fit out with, generally, the most expensive specification they can rather than the most practical and cost effective.
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