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Steve Browett on January Signings
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 Cucking Funt  Clapham on the Back 22 Jan 14 3.26pm |
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A good summary, Syd. One tiny point - I think Sheff Wed are underperforming v potential.
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 Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 22 Jan 14 3.42pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 22 Jan 2014 2.59pm
So doing nothing really isn't an option. I wholeheartedly agree.We simply cannot expect to survive with the current squad. But I am confident that there will be some additions !
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| victor43 St. Albans 22 Jan 14 4.52pm |
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Quote Master Coin at 22 Jan 2014 12.59pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 22 Jan 2014 11.57am
To answer your questions: 1. Do you not think that IM in particular is involved in our txfr dealings? I'd like to think he's involved as that's his area of responsibility. However, the fact that our owners seem to handle media briefings on this subject rather than the executive in charge of it worries me. Maybe it doesn't worry you, but to me it's an early sign of a dysfunctional organisation. Not sure why IM not handling the media briefings on transfer dealings worries you. IM is a negotiations / player personnel guy not necessarily a 'media' guy. Is media even in his job description? To my knowledge he didn't do the media bit at Cardiff and nor do a lot of DoF's. Whether or not leaving SP to basically handle all media responsibilities is the right thing for the club is a different question (which I'm not gonna answer) but IM not doing the media is not an indicator of a disfunctional board room. I could similarly argue that them sitting next to each other at home games is an indicator of a functional relationship - either way would be reading too much into something that might not be there. 2. Do you not think they are trying their best? Absolutely I do. That, however, does not mean they are doing the right things. It's very easy to put 101% into the wrong action, especially when you're running a company. See the first point in my earlier post, which you ignored. When you start doing other people's jobs outside of your own area of expertise, you can work very hard and care a lot, but still end up making the wrong choices. You can.... you might not be. One transfer window aside (the most recent one) there aren't any real indicators of 'cock-up'. We've come from recent administration and Championship relegation battles to the PL in a short space of time so some of the football decisions (pre-IM) must have been good ones. 3. Every year under CPFC 2010's stewardship our club improves, whether it be infrastructure, ability to generate revenue, permanent staff, playing staff. Agreed. And this proves completely my earlier point. In the areas of the club that our owners have proven expertise in (catering, infrastructure, marketing, etc.) they have moved us forwards leaps and bounds. They have done brilliantly. In the areas of the club where they have no expertise but insist on being heavily involved (like the transfer market), we have not performed well at all. This is what is frustrating TP. You could not have made my point for me more clearly. SHUT UP AND LET THE EXPERTS DO THEIR JOBS. Do you think TP tells Browett what wines to select for the club bars? It doesn't 'completely' prove your point at all. It may 'partly' prove your point but think you're reading too much into it again. To suggest we haven't performed well at all in the transfer market is a bit of an overstatement - basically our whole team is signings post-adminstration so that can't be true. At best you can argue that the Summer was a bit of a catastrophe (which it was) but even the summer had some silver linings (Guediora, Bannan and I think Gayle / Campana may come good long term). Also, to your earlier point, you have NO IDEA about whether or not SP is a good negotiator (for example). All you know is that he ran a good marketing business - what underlines that (marketing nouse, negotiation skills, recruitment etc) is unknown to you. I know somebody who worked under SP at TAG who said that, whilst they thought he was a bit of an arse, he was an excellent negotiator and man motivator. Greg Dyke is currently the CEO of the FA. I doubt they employed him because the BBC (his former CEO role) used to show MotD weekly or because he could spot that Sherlock would be a winner on a Saturday night - its probably more to do with his all-round intangible skillset. 4. Financial prudence is everything im afraid, even if it means us dropping back down for a season as we continue to develop. Agreed. But prudence does not mean "take no risks". It means take calculated risks, and have a very good mechanism for judging which to take and which to walk away from. Agreed
I agree with a lot of Ian's / Syd's comments - SP does like the sound of his own voice too much and we absolutely should be entitled to challenge views of the owner / manager (I've been vocal about TP strategy on multiple occasions including his casting aside of young / small talent). With that said I do disagree with a fair bit of it too (see above). I suspect its somewhere between the two polarising opinions in this thread.
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blind eagle  Covington.Tennessee 22 Jan 14 5.04pm |
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Quote Willo at 22 Jan 2014 3.42pm
Quote sydtheeagle at 22 Jan 2014 2.59pm
So doing nothing really isn't an option. I wholeheartedly agree.We simply cannot expect to survive with the current squad. But I am confident that there will be some additions !
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| sydtheeagle England 22 Jan 14 5.33pm |
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Victor: 1. Not sure why IM not handling the media briefings on transfer dealings worries you. IM is a negotiations / player personnel guy not necessarily a 'media' guy. Is media even in his job description? To my knowledge he didn't do the media bit at Cardiff and nor do a lot of DoF's. Whether or not leaving SP to basically handle all media responsibilities is the right thing for the club is a different question (which I'm not gonna answer) but IM not doing the media is not an indicator of a disfunctional board room. I could similarly argue that them sitting next to each other at home games is an indicator of a functional relationship - either way would be reading too much into something that might not be there. My preference is for football people to front up on football and business people to front up on business. I simply find big egos and limelight hogs unattractive. There are many people who, say, could afford a Ferrari but wouldn't choose to drive one because it's not their style (or lack thereof.) But your point that having an owner who is ostentatious not necessarily indicating disharmony within the club is a reasonable one. My conclusion is that the board's activities as noted in my earlier posts is far from a reason for panic -- I agree with you, but it's not a great portent for sound management either. I guess we meet halfway (ish) on this point. 2. You can.... you might not be. One transfer window aside (the most recent one) there aren't any real indicators of 'cock-up'. We've come from recent administration and Championship relegation battles to the PL in a short space of time so some of the football decisions (pre-IM) must have been good ones. I have repeatedly said that CPFC2010 have got more right than wrong, whatever I think of their individual style and approach. It would be churlish to put things that have worked out well down more to luck than judgment, but I would say that promotion "happened to us" rather than being the outcome of a sound plan, and that while they have done a brilliant job with the club off the pitch, good fortune has tended to somewhat inflate their contribution on the playing side. That is NOT to say they have been a disaster...they've just been owners on a learning curve with some successes and some failures who really have been very, very lucky with outcomes. Few clubs with our form in the second half of last season will ever find themselves in the Premiership the following year. But I think a lot of our supporters simply want to believe they walk on water. 3. It doesn't 'completely' prove your point at all. It may 'partly' prove your point but think you're reading too much into it again. To suggest we haven't performed well at all in the transfer market is a bit of an overstatement - basically our whole team is signings post-adminstration so that can't be true. At best you can argue that the Summer was a bit of a catastrophe (which it was) but even the summer had some silver linings (Guediora, Bannan and I think Gayle / Campana may come good long term). Also, to your earlier point, you have NO IDEA about whether or not SP is a good negotiator (for example). All you know is that he ran a good marketing business - what underlines that (marketing nouse, negotiation skills, recruitment etc) is unknown to you. I know somebody who worked under SP at TAG who said that, whilst they thought he was a bit of an arse, he was an excellent negotiator and man motivator. Greg Dyke is currently the CEO of the FA. I doubt they employed him because the BBC (his former CEO role) used to show MotD weekly or because he could spot that Sherlock would be a winner on a Saturday night - its probably more to do with his all-round intangible skillset. Well, I run a marketing agency so unfortunately the nous that requires is very well known to me. And Parish probably has more of it than I do, too (as his business was more successful than mine now is. That said, my car is cooler than his.) In light of that, though, I am very well positioned to know to what degree marketing nous qualifies you to run a football club. Answer: not very. As to your other points, I respect your opinion but I read things a different way. I'm not sure what else I can say, other than I have already explained why at some length. As a general rule, for some the cup is half empty. For some, it's half full. Neither party is wrong and on this we agree to disagree.
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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| dpommo Croydon 22 Jan 14 6.23pm |
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Having read all of the arguments I still cannot fathom how any of you expect the club to have been run any better. Bearing in mind I am talking about the real world, where we are humans and mistakes are unavoidable. Syd, it seems you agree that the present owners have done a good job, but that you just don't like Steve Parish. The last transfer window could have been handled better but other than that I can see little reason to fault them. Reading between the lines (particularly in light of you mentioning you also run a marketing agency, your car is cooler than his and that he probably has more business nous than you as his marketing agency was more successful) I would say that you may be suffering from a touch of envy, which is clouding your judgement. I'll never hero worship these owners or any others as it just isn't in me to do so, but I for one am over the moon that our club has had such a remarkable turnaround in fortunes, and they have to get a decent amount of credit for that (and yes I agree that our promotion was a stroke of luck rather than something born out of supreme planning). Edited by dpommo (22 Jan 2014 6.24pm) Edited by dpommo (22 Jan 2014 6.25pm)
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| zico murphy woking 22 Jan 14 6.48pm |
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Quote sydtheeagle at 22 Jan 2014 2.51pm
Zico:
Are you basing the dody car salesman accusation on behaviour while in the job, or background before becoming chairman? Our last four owners were Ray Bloye, a meat wholesaler, Ron Noades, a property developer, Mark Goldberg, a recruitment agency founder, and Simon Jordan, basically a retailer. They may have behaved like dodgy-second hand car dealers as owners of Palace, but they were not more likely based on their previous lives to have become so than a marketing agency founder, an insurance company magnate or a vintner. I saw my first Palace game in 1967 and had my first season ticket in 1970 and what I know better than anything is that history repeatedly tells us not to blindly trust football club owners, full stop. 2. I would leave Ron Noades out of that because of obvious reasons plus he ran the club well but always did this as a business for himself first, club second. So if I follow you, Ron is not a dodgy-car dealer even though he put his own interests before the clubs. Well, I'll bear that in mind when I consider your positive opinion of our current owners. 3. I feel we are very lucky to have Palace supporters running the club in the interest of the club and feel very confident of the future with them at the helm wether we stay up or go down. This may surprise you, but I would not disagree with you on this point at all. That doesn't, however, change the fact that I'm going to question and challenge them when I disagree with something, or the fact that I may dislike them on one level but respect them on another at the same time.
I was not a Ron Noades fan but out of respect to him and his family I wouldn't want to drag all that up now. You actually agree with me on our current owners (I feel so much better) but you'll challenge them when you don't agree with them ( bet there quaking in their boots).
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| lindz kent 22 Jan 14 7.00pm |
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Quote est1905 at 22 Jan 2014 2.24pm
Quote Ian J at 22 Jan 2014 11.02am
Quote lindz at 22 Jan 2014 9.59am
let's look at Hull they have blown 7 million on Shane Long is he worth that? My guess probably not but they looked desperate went gun oh instead of holding there ground for another 2-3 weeks when that might of left WBA panicking if they needed him off the books and accepted 5.5 million so they would of saved 1.5million they may not of dropped but to save a few quid it's worth waiting. The January window is all about keeping your cards close to your chest and holding your poker face for as long as you can it's We as a club are not willing to just throw money away and with our owners background they have excellent ability to negotiate a good deal just look at there businesses to see thisall about patience because once one club moves they all start moving but the first to move usually gets the raw deal so we're waiting patiently to get what we want at the right prices. If there's no solid rumours or confirmations by about the 26th 27th then it might be time to worry but until then Patience is the key.
You claim that “We as a club are not willing to just throw money away” which implies that other clubs are. Of course we want value for money and only want to buy players that improve the squad but outside of the big six so does everyone else. You also claim that our owners have “excellent ability to negotiate a good deal just look at there businesses to see this” The fact that all four directors have had successful business careers doesn’t imply a) that they have any ability to negotiate at all and b) that they know anything about running a football club. One of the directors has a background in motor insurance another is a vintner whilst the most vocal of all has a background in brand management which in plain English means convincing people that products are wonderful when perhaps they are anything but.
I think there's a misinterpretation here. First of all I was using Shane Long as an example of what could happen it the situation I gave I didn't say that's what did happen it was an example of what COULD happen by holding out and depending on circumstances of both clubs. The second misinterpretation from the second post who said anything about hero worship? That's you throwing that in I never said that and seeing as you quoted my post I presume you meant me? I personally think CPFC2010 have done an average job they have made some spectacular moves and some very poor ones they have a long way to go until they are hero worshipped especially by me but one thing that endears them to many fans is that it's clear to see that they do have the clubs best interests at heart. Secondly yes I do believe other clubs are willing to throw money at things like we used too hence our 2 administrations and I think I can prove my point on this by saying how many other clubs have been in administration? Especially bigger clubs trying to stay in the division but ended up falling down the leagues by throwing money at it, Leeds,Pompey to name a couple. I seriously believe bar 5-6 clubs in the Premier league are ALL gambling there futures on staying up. Another point how do I know they have an excellent ability to negotiate? Right there are a few reasons number 1 they managed to buy the ground when buying the club which was initially a major no go to buying the club. 2. They managed to sell our best player for a decent fee which was the best deal we would of got then we even managed to have the cheek to make a 10-15million pound player they just brought stay at our club for the rest of the season. 3. We have a low wage budget even when we was in the championship and we managed to bring in good players to get us out of that division within our budget and not having to over stretch eg Leicester (we could of took the easy route too) 4. They have managed to secure and buy our training ground as our own bringing all the clubs facilities under one ownership which is brilliant for a club of our structure. 5. The sponsorship of 12bet around the stadium I understand a lot of clubs do this for extra revenue but they are generally on new grounds not old worn out ones. Why none of this is otherworldly it sure proves they are skilled negotiators 6. Which isn't proof but it lets you know how I know, from my background I have an excellent ability to read people I don't mean like some people have intuition I mean I have spent years studying and I sincerely believe they are skilled negotiators. I think you will find brand management plays a huge part in negotiating so by writing this you are negating your own point and yes SP is excellent at brand management anyone can see that, marketing is probably the most important part of negotiating and I believe SP showed how good he was at it with the signing of Edgar David's it doesn't matter how rubbish he turned out to be for us it made a lot of other people notice us who normally wouldn't and that is far more important than how well he played and was an excellent example of marketing, whether it was intentional or not I don't know but I believe it was. So it has nothing to do with hero worshipping etc it was just observations from my own opinions.
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| Midlands Eagle 22 Jan 14 7.30pm |
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Quote lindz at 22 Jan 2014 7.00pm
The second misinterpretation from the second post who said anything about hero worship? That's you throwing that in I never said that and seeing as you quoted my post I presume you meant me? Another point how do I know they have an excellent ability to negotiate? Right there are a few reasons number 1 they managed to buy the ground when buying the club which was initially a major no go to buying the club. I have edited your quote for brevity but the two comments that I would make are firstly - it wasn't me that talked about hero worship as you have quoted two posts together and secondly the purchase of the freehold was probably down to luck as the owners didn't want to sell but fortunately (for us) they went bust at the same time as we did and their Administrators were willing to sell. Similarly with the training ground as that came up for auction last year and our bid was the highest
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bodge  22 Jan 14 8.07pm |
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We know our owners are not going to gamble our clubs future with stupid mega money deals and rightly so. We need c/b and g/k cover and if we can find one a striker.Forget what Hull and the like do - their madness may well come back to haunt them. As for Steve Parish if he is asked to do an interveiw for radio he should do it as the mouthpiece of the club we are lucky to have such open owners going on the forums discussing any problems we as fans have with the club well done to them.
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| geoff Midhurst 22 Jan 14 8.11pm |
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I guesswork we can debate all we like and we can decide what players we should be getting. However it's not our decision, not our money and very very few of us have a clue what's going on inside the club.
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| sydtheeagle England 22 Jan 14 8.55pm |
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Quote dpommo at 22 Jan 2014 6.23pm
Having read all of the arguments I still cannot fathom how any of you expect the club to have been run any better. Bearing in mind I am talking about the real world, where we are humans and mistakes are unavoidable. Syd, it seems you agree that the present owners have done a good job, but that you just don't like Steve Parish. The last transfer window could have been handled better but other than that I can see little reason to fault them. Reading between the lines (particularly in light of you mentioning you also run a marketing agency, your car is cooler than his and that he probably has more business nous than you as his marketing agency was more successful) I would say that you may be suffering from a touch of envy, which is clouding your judgement. I'll never hero worship these owners or any others as it just isn't in me to do so, but I for one am over the moon that our club has had such a remarkable turnaround in fortunes, and they have to get a decent amount of credit for that (and yes I agree that our promotion was a stroke of luck rather than something born out of supreme planning). Edited by dpommo (22 Jan 2014 6.24pm) Edited by dpommo (22 Jan 2014 6.25pm) I think I'm done with this thread. Enough's enough. Just one thing; I thought it was obvious the car comment was tongue in cheek. Apparently it wasn't taken that way. Well, if that isn't my cue to bail I don't know what is!
Sydenham by birth. Selhurst by the Grace of God. |
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