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davenotamonkey 25 May 14 9.27pm | |
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As just a simple racist and fascist having voted UKIP, I'm keen for the enlightened on here to explain something that has eluded me. In the 90s, post-recession, the economy was growing (driven by debt) strongly and net migration into the UK was about 20-30k average per year. Why is it, 20 years later, we suddenly require a migrationary level 10X that, for an economy that is very much not booming? What has changed? Why do we suddenly need so many more people coming into the country for work purposes? Why does this level of immigration demonstrate that the economy is "on the up" (as has been claimed by many espousing the virtues of the influx, including Vince Cable). The UK population increased by about 6.5 million from 1991 to 2012, considerably from the Labour flood. But does that require 10X higher level of immigration? I'm looking at graphs such as this, for example: When did EU freedom of movement come into effect anyway, out of interest?
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legaleagle 25 May 14 9.27pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 9.18pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
Stirling, if I was you I wouldn't try to patronize people who are more intelligent than you. Oh the boredom of answering insults of people who have been scarred in previous debates. Never mind...I'm bored so I will. This sentence is itself patronizing. So you're telling me not to do what you are yourself doing....How intelligent. Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
1) Of course you can have a political opinion without voting - your assumption is inaccurate and insulting. I questioned the validity of his views when he himself doesn't vote.....I didn't say he can't have an opinion, I questioned the point of it. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.....However apparently not to you so your conclusions are built upon a false premise....And I suspect motivated by emotion. Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
2) a large part of the economy (including ones which make very large profits) are based on controlled final charges. What you are confusing it with is charges which will not allow for a profit margin. You give a very generalistic response to a specific point. The point concerned 'capping rents' of organisations who had themselves built houses. This isn't done for the reason I explained...Or so I imagine it isn't. My point is that this isn't going to appeal to developers....It hasn't been done....Again for the reasons I explained. It would be another obstacle to house building. Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
If I were you, I would not take up general science, never mind rocket science. Thanks for the advice.....That's two situations where you are imagining yo were me in one post.....Maybe you should just be happy with your Slovakian self Dave. Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2014 9.25pm) Sloveniadave. Slovenia: former Yugoslav republic, south of Austria. Slovakia: former part of Czechoslovakia Then again ,both not historically part of the UK and containing people "not the same as us"!
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Stirlingsays 25 May 14 9.28pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 25 May 2014 9.25pm
Rather than the difference between EU open markets in people and goods, and a points-based system, maybe it comes down to whether or not a country actively welcomes migration in principle, actively promotes multiculturalism or, rather, is intrinsically opposed to "swamping" by immigration of people from different cultures and blames immigrants for far wider ills. Or maybe that once a points based system was put into place a lot of the concerns of the majority were answered......Hence no need for the party.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 25 May 14 9.29pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 9.18pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
Stirling, if I was you I wouldn't try to patronize people who are more intelligent than you. Oh the boredom of answering insults of people who have been scarred in previous debates. Never mind...I'm bored so I will. This sentence is itself patronizing. So you're telling me not to do what you are yourself doing....How intelligent. Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
1) Of course you can have a political opinion without voting - your assumption is inaccurate and insulting. I questioned the validity of his views when he himself doesn't vote.....I didn't say he can't have an opinion, I questioned the point of it. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.....However apparently not to you. Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
2) a large part of the economy (including ones which make very large profits) are based on controlled final charges. What you are confusing it with is charges which will not allow for a profit margin. You give a very generalistic response to a specific point. The point concerned 'capping rents' of organisations who had themselves built houses. This isn't done for the reason I explained...Or so I imagine it isn't. My point is that this isn't going to appeal to developers....It hasn't been done....Again for the reasons I explained. It would be another obstacle to house building. Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm
If I were you, I would not take up general science, never mind rocket science. Thanks for the advice.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that does not mean that everyone's opinion carries equal value. You have a very myopic, remote and disengaged view of life in general and that is reflected in your posts. My (patronizing) suggestion, is that you get out and live a bit more - that way you could actually gather some evidence and knowledge to support your opinions, so that they are not simply prejudices.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive) |
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Stirlingsays 25 May 14 9.31pm | |
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Quote legaleagle at 25 May 2014 9.27pm
Sloveniadave. Slovenia: former Yugoslav republic, south of Austria. Slovakia: former part of Czechoslovakia Then again ,both not historically part of the UK and containing people "not the same as us"! Slip of the keyboard.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 25 May 14 9.35pm | |
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Quote davenotamonkey at 25 May 2014 9.27pm
As just a simple racist and fascist having voted UKIP, I'm keen for the enlightened on here to explain something that has eluded me. In the 90s, post-recession, the economy was growing (driven by debt) strongly and net migration into the UK was about 20-30k average per year. Why is it, 20 years later, we suddenly require a migrationary level 10X that, for an economy that is very much not booming? What has changed? Why do we suddenly need so many more people coming into the country for work purposes? Why does this level of immigration demonstrate that the economy is "on the up" (as has been claimed by many espousing the virtues of the influx, including Vince Cable). The UK population increased by about 6.5 million from 1991 to 2012, considerably from the Labour flood. But does that require 10X higher level of immigration? I'm looking at graphs such as this, for example: When did EU freedom of movement come into effect anyway, out of interest?[/quote]
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive) |
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legaleagle 25 May 14 9.35pm | |
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Quote davenotamonkey at 25 May 2014 9.27pm
As just a simple racist and fascist having voted UKIP, I'm keen for the enlightened on here to explain something that has eluded me. In the 90s, post-recession, the economy was growing (driven by debt) strongly and net migration into the UK was about 20-30k average per year. Why is it, 20 years later, we suddenly require a migrationary level 10X that, for an economy that is very much not booming? What has changed? Why do we suddenly need so many more people coming into the country for work purposes? Why does this level of immigration demonstrate that the economy is "on the up" (as has been claimed by many espousing the virtues of the influx, including Vince Cable). The UK population increased by about 6.5 million from 1991 to 2012, considerably from the Labour flood. But does that require 10X higher level of immigration? I'm looking at graphs such as this, for example: When did EU freedom of movement come into effect anyway, out of interest? "It is a core principle, enshrined in the EU treaties, which works in parallel with the other three basic freedoms in the single market: freedom of goods, capital and services. The European Commission says it is the right most closely associated with EU citizenship. An EU survey suggests it is seen as the EU's most positive achievement, ahead of peace in Europe, the euro and student exchanges. More than 14 million EU citizens are resident in another member state - 2.8% of the total EU population. Before the EU's big eastward expansion in 2004, citizens of the former communist bloc countries had less freedom to travel than western Europeans. That was a legacy of the Cold War. The EU's Justice Commissioner Viviane Reding told students in Belgium recently: "Today, as European citizens... you can travel 3,000km (1,860 miles) across Europe - from Vilnius in Lithuania to Valencia in Spain - without once stopping at a border." Freedom of movement helps to fill job vacancies in many EU countries and gives employers a wider talent pool, the Commission argues. Germany, resilient in the euro crisis, is proving a magnet for jobseekers from recession-hit countries like Spain, Italy and Greece. Europe's football clubs are among those who have benefited from the freedom of professionals to move".
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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 25 May 14 9.36pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 9.31pm
Quote legaleagle at 25 May 2014 9.27pm
Sloveniadave. Slovenia: former Yugoslav republic, south of Austria. Slovakia: former part of Czechoslovakia Then again ,both not historically part of the UK and containing people "not the same as us"! Slip of the keyboard.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive) |
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legaleagle 25 May 14 9.39pm | |
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Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 9.28pm
Quote legaleagle at 25 May 2014 9.25pm
Rather than the difference between EU open markets in people and goods, and a points-based system, maybe it comes down to whether or not a country actively welcomes migration in principle, actively promotes multiculturalism or, rather, is intrinsically opposed to "swamping" by immigration of people from different cultures and blames immigrants for far wider ills. Or maybe that once a points based system was put into place a lot of the concerns of the majority were answered......Hence no need for the party. Or maybe not. One Nation emerged many years after the points-based system had been introduced. I was an Australian resident (via the points system) at the time.
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legaleagle 25 May 14 9.39pm | |
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Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 9.36pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 9.31pm
Quote legaleagle at 25 May 2014 9.27pm
Sloveniadave. Slovenia: former Yugoslav republic, south of Austria. Slovakia: former part of Czechoslovakia Then again ,both not historically part of the UK and containing people "not the same as us"! Slip of the keyboard.
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davenotamonkey 25 May 14 9.40pm | |
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Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 9.35pm
Quote davenotamonkey at 25 May 2014 9.27pm
As just a simple racist and fascist having voted UKIP, I'm keen for the enlightened on here to explain something that has eluded me. In the 90s, post-recession, the economy was growing (driven by debt) strongly and net migration into the UK was about 20-30k average per year. Why is it, 20 years later, we suddenly require a migrationary level 10X that, for an economy that is very much not booming? What has changed? Why do we suddenly need so many more people coming into the country for work purposes? Why does this level of immigration demonstrate that the economy is "on the up" (as has been claimed by many espousing the virtues of the influx, including Vince Cable). The UK population increased by about 6.5 million from 1991 to 2012, considerably from the Labour flood. But does that require 10X higher level of immigration? I'm looking at graphs such as this, for example: When did EU freedom of movement come into effect anyway, out of interest?[/quote]
Thanks SD, must've been that Maastricht treaty we were all given a referendum on back then? I assume we wouldn't have been able to trade with Europe had we not signed it. Glad we all voted for ratification in that case. Shame we didn't join the Euro at the time.
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legaleagle 25 May 14 9.47pm | |
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Quote davenotamonkey at 25 May 2014 9.40pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 9.35pm
Quote davenotamonkey at 25 May 2014 9.27pm
As just a simple racist and fascist having voted UKIP, I'm keen for the enlightened on here to explain something that has eluded me. In the 90s, post-recession, the economy was growing (driven by debt) strongly and net migration into the UK was about 20-30k average per year. Why is it, 20 years later, we suddenly require a migrationary level 10X that, for an economy that is very much not booming? What has changed? Why do we suddenly need so many more people coming into the country for work purposes? Why does this level of immigration demonstrate that the economy is "on the up" (as has been claimed by many espousing the virtues of the influx, including Vince Cable). The UK population increased by about 6.5 million from 1991 to 2012, considerably from the Labour flood. But does that require 10X higher level of immigration? I'm looking at graphs such as this, for example: When did EU freedom of movement come into effect anyway, out of interest?[/quote]
Thanks SD, must've been that Maastricht treaty we were all given a referendum on back then? I assume we wouldn't have been able to trade with Europe had we not signed it. Glad we all voted for ratification in that case. Shame we didn't join the Euro at the time. The concept of free movement of persons came about with the signing of the Schengen Agreement in 1985 and the subsequent Schengen Convention in 1990, which initiated the abolition of border controls between participating countries. Being part of the EU legal and institutional framework, Schengen cooperation has gradually been extended to include most EU Member States as well as some non-EU countries
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