If the ones that died while infected, wernt infected would they have died. Are you assuming that they would still have died at that same time in their life no matter. I did post that all of us imo have an underlying health issue however small, we are not machines; and covid finds that and bingo. Death in some,a small some yes but still caused by catching this virus. I'm on fultium D already so maybe had some protection from the off.

At the time you appeared to believe that vaccination had no impact on transmission. The 'pseudoscience' (aka peer reviewed studies or details of) taught you otherwise. Israel is clearly the place to look to as they are ahead of the curve. "Do you believe everything Israel says" was your strange take on that.

Millions of people have already died and sadly millions more will join them. There are of course multiple reason why people become ill and die but by your logic we'd never put a number on any illness or condition, because multiple factors are always at play.

There are multiple reliable studies by major health groups (already posted) comparing hospitalisations in those vaccinated vs not of comparable age (which makes the lockdown a moot point) which show stark differences between groups. Since being vaccinated both cuts down your chance of contracting covid, getting seriously ill with it and spreading it that should be no surprise. A sweeping and nonsensical 'lies' label on these studies, in favour of your 'real data' is more nonsense. Nobody is arguing that numbers don't drop during lockdown, that's kind of the point. You not being able to understand that it's possible to see the impact of differences between vaccinated and unvaccinated illness in those circumstances is another 'Dr Mort' classic.

What is your point here. Are you claiming that vaccination doesn't reduce illness and hospitalisation? It clearly and evidentially does.

Edited by BlueJay (11 Mar 2021 2.24pm)

With respect WE I am not missing the point - it is my opinion and I am entitled to hold a different one from you.

It is strange how so many left leaning (not literally) people are happy to surrender their personal freedoms and liberties as long as they are “kept safe by the government”

People who cannot stand the tories are quick to believe them now that they have their best interest at heart - very odd.

My last post in this section because you still keep on repeating the same old nonsense.

You provide no real data it is always cherry picked ones to suit your agenda the samething the govt does.

You are obsessed with Israel as if they are the worlds best and everything they claims is 100% facts no its not and the claims they are leading not at all read the science papers you clearly have not done so they have shown nothing its all again agenda driven.

Show controlled studies on humans for all this data you cant because they dont have any again what you are claiming shows this or that no it doesn't they are going by observation or association again this is not science.

peer review is a complete joke I have done this myself if a project is funded by a massive company who has invested billions for an outcome that is what they are going to get again this shows you have no understanding on even looking up details on a paper or understanding what is in them.

You keep claiming about studies but have no understanding how to read them looking at the graphs or charts does not mean you understand it is all in the wording and the methods used.

I said it before closed minded brainwashed all the studies you mention why not post the direct full studies up for people to take a look at not media outlet links or quotes the full studies carried out by those people not again studies that are taking other peoples data to make their study because this is again invalid why because those sources are invalid so it's useless data to begin with.

I have no issue with vaccines but again we do not have real data which shows it protects every one or stops this or that.

People have other health issues this is what they need to focus on fixing having a vaccine and then claiming well it reduces hospital admissions again completly false these people are unhealthy they could be admitted for all sort of medical problems be it a cold or even something like a cut which has been infected.

Again go and look at the real data broken down into categories for uk for respiratory infections they was on par with every other year so no its not covid-19 that is the problem it is the other health issues you add second or third infection to these people yes they will be in trouble or die which is why people do die.

goodbye

Edited by grumpymort (11 Mar 2021 4.04pm)

Ok WE - you blindly continue to trust that Johnson & Hancock (and possibly the most corrupt UK Government ever?) won’t be keen to introduce the domestic digital ID pass. Remember that if this is introduced it will not end with the Cv vaccine, you will be required to accept any future medical procedures that they see fit otherwise you will run the risk of your pass no longer allowing you to work and socialise.

Here's something for you to consider, Maple.
There's been a recent update on the UK government website (gov.uk) that the PCR tests were wildly inaccurate.
I'm not for a minute saying everything they post is 100% kosher, but it certainly leads to their science being "problematic".

[Link]

My last post in this section because you still keep on repeating the same old nonsense.

You provide no real data it is always cherry picked ones to suit your agenda the samething the govt does.

You are obsessed with Israel as if they are the worlds best and everything they claims is 100% facts no its not and the claims they are leading not at all read the science papers you clearly have not done so they have shown nothing its all again agenda driven.

Show controlled studies on humans for all this data you cant because they dont have any again what you are claiming shows this or that no it doesn't they are going by observation or association again this is not science.

peer review is a complete joke I have done this myself if a project is funded by a massive company who has invested billions for an outcome that is what they are going to get again this shows you have no understanding on even looking up details on a paper or understanding what is in them.

You keep claiming about studies but have no understanding how to read them looking at the graphs or charts does not mean you understand it is all in the wording and the methods used.

I said it before closed minded brainwashed all the studies you mention why not post the direct full studies up for people to take a look at not media outlet links or quotes the full studies carried out by those people not again studies that are taking other peoples data to make their study because this is again invalid why because those sources are invalid so it's useless data to begin with.

I have no issue with vaccines but again we do not have real data which shows it protects every one or stops this or that.

People have other health issues this is what they need to focus on fixing having a vaccine and then claiming well it reduces hospital admissions again completly false these people are unhealthy they could be admitted for all sort of medical problems be it a cold or even something like a cut which has been infected.

Again go and look at the real data broken down into categories for uk for respiratory infections they was on par with every other year so no its not covid-19 that is the problem it is the other health issues you add second or third infection to these people yes they will be in trouble or die which is why people do die.

goodbye

Edited by grumpymort (11 Mar 2021 4.04pm)