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Stirlingsays Flag 25 May 14 6.46pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 5.50pm


You very obviously meant to suggest that I was likely part of that group that was typical, else why even say it? I'm just telling you that I'm not.

Sure I did.....I didn't say you was....Besides being 'typical of a group' doesn't imply I'm certain or that different situations aren't possible. Hence you're a bit out of order telling me that I 'shouldn't claim to know what a person has been through'. That is taking what I said and extending it.

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 5.50pm

I suggested that you didn't know of my experience on account that I'd told you absolutely nothing about it. You based your view of me on nothing. You told me that you were a 10% minority and that you suffered racism. Having an opinion on information presented is very, very different from assuming that person hasn't had a bad experience and is 'typical', when none of that applies to them.

It is hypocritical because the small amount of information I gave you doesn't by any stretch mean you know the rights and wrongs of my belief system......You essentially moaned about something which you then did yourself.

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 5.50pm

Many move here by complete choice, just as many Brits do abroad. Plenty of people here haven't wished to place themselves in that position though. The wives, the children and so on. There are of course many reasons people end up here.

There are pockets in countless countries that are minority centric. As you say, it's not really the fault of those moving there that you are unhappy with their presense. People have to be somewhere now don't they, and it can't always be in a configuration that suits you personally.

Thanks for the pointless exposition. The point is, this is where I grew up and belong. Immigrants choose to come here and where I feel the numbers are too big and an area is swamped I have a right to object to it.....Which is essentially what I have done. Receiving morality lectures from you is patronizing.


Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 5.50pm

I didn't say you moved to Wisbech because of the immigrants there. I said it looks like you perpetually want to get away from environments that go down that path, as it appears Wisbech has. That's fine. If and when you have the means, you can move somewhere else. That's your perfect right.

I didn't think you had said that...There were very few immigrants here when I moved to Wisbech so you must have misunderstood what I typed.

Yes, I don't feel comfortable feeling a foreigner in my own town and I will move when I have the means.

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 5.50pm

I do though care about how people already here are talked about and treated regardless of their background.

Is this apart of your egalitarianism?

So you don't support open door immigration from the EU then? As that is an open door. So which party's policy to you support then?

Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2014 6.55pm)

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Johnny Eagles Flag berlin 25 May 14 6.51pm Send a Private Message to Johnny Eagles Add Johnny Eagles as a friend

Quote Kermit8 at 24 May 2014 9.39pm

Quote matt_himself at 24 May 2014 6.48pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 24 May 2014 2.52pm

Just listened to Any Questions on Radio 4.

The response of all three "main" parties to the questions raised by UKIP's success was the same.

People who vote UKIP are basically a bunch of idiot racists who don't know what's good for them. Look at London, where everyone loves immigrants and diversity. If only the rest of the country could be as enlightened as London. If they were able to elevate themselves to our level of political debate they might understand.

F*ck you, Angela Eagle, and your charlatan Labour party.
F*ck you, Justine Greening, and your Tories.
F*ck you, Malcolm Bruce, and your Lib Dems.

I am voting UKIP at the next general election because I despise all of you.

Not because I am a racist idiot who doesn't know what's good for him. Because I wish to show you the contempt you clearly show towards all but the small handful of swing voters in non-safe seats.

F*ck you all.

Rant over.


I too find it disgusting that the major parties are now talking about 'lessons learned' and, even more patronising, 'angry voters'.

It annoys me that this is an admission that the parties have taken their eyes off of the most important part of heir job, voter satisfaction, and are doing as they please.

All of the sycophants coming out of the woodwork and say this is a 'wake up call' has simply reinforced my view that unless there is an honest debate about the direction we wish as a country to engage with, then we are f***ed.

Let's hope he careerists in Westminister take heed and engage.


Even if we did and we had a referendum which voted to stay in the EU the disaffected Thatcherites and UKippers - one and the same imo - still wouldn't shut the fvck up, would you?

No, because UKIP has become about more than having a referendum on the EU.

I would welcome a referendum. I would vote "out". But Cameron has, in his slippery way, 'promised' that referendum.

The point is, almost nobody believes him. The 'promise' has barely made a dent in UKIP support.

Voters, right-wing or otherwise, don't just want a referendum. They want politicians to stop lying and spinning and treating them as idiots who don't matter.

 

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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luckybuck Flag 25 May 14 6.55pm Send a Private Message to luckybuck Add luckybuck as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 6.46pm

Yes, I don't feel comfortable feeling a foreigner in my own town and I will move when I have the means.

Your town now is it? And there was me thinking you'd moved there. You know like immigrants do. Some people have a very regionalised sense of identity. Did you attempt to adapt to the fenland way of living when you moved to Wisbech or are you still juggling your apples and pairs?

Quote Receiving morality lectures from you is patronizing.

And now with the American spelling. Are you sure you're British?

Quote

So you don't support open door immigration from the EU then? As that is an open door. So which party's policy to you support then?

I wouldn't object to a worldwide cap rather than a solely non EU cap. I don't feel that there should be an obligation to let people move here. Of course to achieve that we'd either have to leave the EU or ignore specific rulings and take the consequences. Time will tell if either or those ever happens.


Edited by luckybuck (25 May 2014 7.02pm)

 
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luckybuck Flag 25 May 14 7.01pm Send a Private Message to luckybuck Add luckybuck as a friend

Quote Johnny Eagles at 25 May 2014 6.51pm

Quote Kermit8 at 24 May 2014 9.39pm

Quote matt_himself at 24 May 2014 6.48pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 24 May 2014 2.52pm

Just listened to Any Questions on Radio 4.

The response of all three "main" parties to the questions raised by UKIP's success was the same.

People who vote UKIP are basically a bunch of idiot racists who don't know what's good for them. Look at London, where everyone loves immigrants and diversity. If only the rest of the country could be as enlightened as London. If they were able to elevate themselves to our level of political debate they might understand.

F*ck you, Angela Eagle, and your charlatan Labour party.
F*ck you, Justine Greening, and your Tories.
F*ck you, Malcolm Bruce, and your Lib Dems.

I am voting UKIP at the next general election because I despise all of you.

Not because I am a racist idiot who doesn't know what's good for him. Because I wish to show you the contempt you clearly show towards all but the small handful of swing voters in non-safe seats.

F*ck you all.

Rant over.


I too find it disgusting that the major parties are now talking about 'lessons learned' and, even more patronising, 'angry voters'.

It annoys me that this is an admission that the parties have taken their eyes off of the most important part of heir job, voter satisfaction, and are doing as they please.

All of the sycophants coming out of the woodwork and say this is a 'wake up call' has simply reinforced my view that unless there is an honest debate about the direction we wish as a country to engage with, then we are f***ed.

Let's hope he careerists in Westminister take heed and engage.


Even if we did and we had a referendum which voted to stay in the EU the disaffected Thatcherites and UKippers - one and the same imo - still wouldn't shut the fvck up, would you?

No, because UKIP has become about more than having a referendum on the EU.

I would welcome a referendum. I would vote "out". But Cameron has, in his slippery way, 'promised' that referendum.

The point is, almost nobody believes him. The 'promise' has barely made a dent in UKIP support.

Voters, right-wing or otherwise, don't just want a referendum. They want politicians to stop lying and spinning and treating them as idiots who don't matter.

There's good reason not to believe him. Only a fool would take his word for it. On the other hand though a vote for UKIP is a vote for labour in some regions as it splits the tory vote. It's an unusual state of affairs. I'd love to know what discussions are going on behind the scenes.

 
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Stirlingsays Flag 25 May 14 7.26pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 6.55pm


Your town now is it? And there was me thinking you'd moved there. You know like immigrants do. Some people have a very regionalised sense of identity. Did you attempt to adapt to the fenland way of living when you moved to Wisbech to are you still juggling your apples and pairs?

You're taking the words, 'my town' a tad literally here. Fenland way of living? ...It's the south mate, I moved a hundred miles within my own country. It's my country with my language and customs.

I don't remember any problems as such.....Some grumbled about 'Londoners' buying up cheap properties....Which was fair enough, because we were. However, no one started an independence party because of it.

But they have because of open door EU polities that you support.

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 6.55pm

I wouldn't object to a worldwide cap rather than a solely non EU cap. I don't feel that there should be an obligation to let people move here. Of course to achieve that we'd either have to leave the EU or ignore specific rulings and take the consequences. Time will tell if either or those ever happens.

Interesting....Personally, I'd be happier with a immigration policy like Australia's points system with our traditional exception for asylum.

Being apart of the EU kind of makes that very difficult so I'm going to wait and see what happens as well.

I'd like to be apart of a EU that compelled less and focused upon trade and cooperation on mutual areas......We have packs and Nato so I don't see why we require anything more than that.


Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2014 7.29pm)

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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luckybuck Flag 25 May 14 7.40pm Send a Private Message to luckybuck Add luckybuck as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 7.26pm

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 6.55pm


Your town now is it? And there was me thinking you'd moved there. You know like immigrants do. Some people have a very regionalised sense of identity. Did you attempt to adapt to the fenland way of living when you moved to Wisbech to are you still juggling your apples and pairs?

You're taking the words, 'my town' a tad literally here. Fenland way of living? ...It's the south mate, I moved a hundred miles within my own country. It's my country with my language and customs.

I don't remember any problems as such.....Some grumbled about 'Londoners' buying up cheap properties....Which was fair enough, because we were. However, no one started an independence party because of it.

But they have because of open door EU polities that you support.

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 6.55pm

I wouldn't object to a worldwide cap rather than a solely non EU cap. I don't feel that there should be an obligation to let people move here. Of course to achieve that we'd either have to leave the EU or ignore specific rulings and take the consequences. Time will tell if either or those ever happens.

Interesting....Personally, I'd be happier with a immigration policy like Australia's points system with our traditional exception for asylum.

Being apart of the EU kind of makes that very difficult so I'm going to wait and see what happens as well.

I'd like to apart of a EU that compelled less and focused upon trade and cooperation on mutual areas......We have packs and Nato so I don't see why we require anything more than that outside of that.

Becoming aligned with any country or group of countries brings its pros and cons no doubt. We of course have freedom to live elsewhere but it is a shame that we don't have more say over borders. A points system does have its merits. Ironically we're currently rejecting many non EU immigrants who could benefit the country on account that it keeps the overall numbers down.

 
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matt_himself Flag Matataland 25 May 14 7.56pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

I think the identity of 'Lucky Buck' is becoming clearer...

 

"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02
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Stirlingsays Flag 25 May 14 8.06pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 7.40pm

Becoming aligned with any country or group of countries brings its pros and cons no doubt. We of course have freedom to live elsewhere but it is a shame that we don't have more say over borders. A points system does have its merits. Ironically we're currently rejecting many non EU immigrants who could benefit the country on account that it keeps the overall numbers down.


Immigration should be set to what we need and can afford and what is fair to those here who have set down roots...Or intend to.

I don't know what that affordability figure is but at the moment apparently we need to build a city the size of Southampton every year just to keep the housing and infrastructure provision how it is now.....And it's in an unacceptable state as it is.

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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luckybuck Flag 25 May 14 8.11pm Send a Private Message to luckybuck Add luckybuck as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 8.06pm

Quote luckybuck at 25 May 2014 7.40pm

Becoming aligned with any country or group of countries brings its pros and cons no doubt. We of course have freedom to live elsewhere but it is a shame that we don't have more say over borders. A points system does have its merits. Ironically we're currently rejecting many non EU immigrants who could benefit the country on account that it keeps the overall numbers down.


Immigration should be set to what we need and can afford and what is fair to those here who have set down roots...Or intend to.

I don't know what that affordability figure is but at the moment apparently we need to build a city the size of Southampton every year just to keep the housing and infrastructure provision how it is now.....And it's in an unacceptable state as it is.

In the court of public opinion things do seem to be coming to a head. It's a very uncertain time. Will this be resolved at the next general election though?

Edited by luckybuck (25 May 2014 8.14pm)

 
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SloveniaDave Flag Tirana, Albania 25 May 14 8.33pm Send a Private Message to SloveniaDave Add SloveniaDave as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 25 May 2014 1.04am

Quote TUX at 24 May 2014 9.48pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 May 2014 8.54pm

Quote TUX at 24 May 2014 7.32pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 24 May 2014 6.34pm

Anything but Labour.

After their ten years they just don't deserve another go so soon.

Borrowed on surpluses, didn't build anything like enough houses for the increase in population they allowed in though idealism (if you increase the population you need to build houses and infrastructure to accommodate it...And they didn't).

They stole the Tories clothes but still managed to leave office like every Labour administration before them.....With an economy in a mess.

Neither have the Tories built anywhere near enough homes so I don't get your point.
In Surrey, more land is taken up with Golf Courses than housing. How does that work?
The Tories have failed just a badly as Labour imo. The construction of new homes is a must on two counts. Firstly, it creates employment for far more than those you see 'on site' hence more taxes to the treasury I guess? Secondly, we have a growing population so it's a no-brainer.
But no, the current Govt decided to give those on massive salaries a tax cut(?) then chases those on benefits that may have 'a spare room'? What a waste of resources that's proven to be!

Politics, don't ya just love it lol.

You don't get the point Tux?

The Tories before Blair (97) hadn't let in three million extra people...Quite simple really.....So while Thatcher doing 'right to buy' without replacing housing stock was wrong...It pales into insignificance to what your ideological buddies did......Did they build a near million homes to cope and all the infrastructure needed for these people.... Did they hell....They turned a blind eye and called anyone moaning about it a bigot and/or a racist.

As for the current government.....With what exactly are they going to build homes with? They came in with no money and a crippling generational sized debt..... even with an improving economy the fact is we are still borrowing dosh to get by each year.....It's only because this government is getting things in order than we can still borrow at low rates.....Do you think Labour would be trusted by the markets...Not a hope.

Labour had the money years in the ninties, which was built upon debt and property prices and they did what they always do....Feck it up.

Yeah, the Tories would have operated the same economy but I very much doubt they would have borrowed in surplus years.....Na, Labour and the economy are trash.


I don't vote bud so the idea of me having 'ideological buddies' is just illogical.
Who said it's for the Govt to spend on new homes? Not me. Read what is written not what you think you see.
The Govt should let those that can build new homes build them. That's the first part of the Govts job, the second being to 'cap rents'. The second point will save the Govt, ie you and me, a fortune in 'housing benefit' being paid which ultimately goes into the pockets of private landlords.
We're becoming feudal again, medieval times of tenants and landlords. That's hardly progress..................especially as the landlords in the medieval times were not backed by the authorities.

It 'aint rocket science.

Not another one who don't vote yet talks politics on a public forum.....Why bother having a voice here when where it matters you decide to have no voice?....Never mind, it's your democratic right to be illogical.

And speaking of logic?.....You can't 'get' people to build houses with the knowledge that what they charge for them will be controlled.....It don't work like that mate...Putin rules Russia not the UK...There has to be an incentive for companies to build modern houses.

Also, the government requires social housing....Which ever method the government chooses to build them social housing is expensive and costs the state anyway you look at it.

If I were you.....I wouldn't take up rocket science.


Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2014 1.07am)


Stirling, if I was you I wouldn't try to patronize people who are more intelligent than you.

1) Of course you can have a political opinion without voting - your assumption is inaccurate and insulting.

2) a large part of the economy (including ones which make very large profits) are based on controlled final charges. What you are confusing it with is charges which will not allow for a profit margin.

If I were you, I would not take up general science, never mind rocket science.

 

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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Stirlingsays Flag 25 May 14 9.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm

Stirling, if I was you I wouldn't try to patronize people who are more intelligent than you.

Oh the boredom of answering insults of people who have been scarred in previous debates. Never mind...I'm bored so I will.

This sentence is itself patronizing. So you're telling me not to do what you are yourself doing....How intelligent.

Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm

1) Of course you can have a political opinion without voting - your assumption is inaccurate and insulting.

I questioned the validity of his views when he himself doesn't vote.....I didn't say he can't have an opinion, I questioned the point of it. That's a perfectly reasonable thing to say.....However apparently not to you so your conclusions are built upon a false premise....And I suspect motivated by emotion.

Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm

2) a large part of the economy (including ones which make very large profits) are based on controlled final charges. What you are confusing it with is charges which will not allow for a profit margin.

You give a very generalistic response to a specific point. The point concerned 'capping rents' of organisations who had themselves built houses. This isn't done for the reason I explained...Or so I imagine it isn't. My point is that this isn't going to appeal to developers....It hasn't been done....Again for the reasons I explained. It would be another obstacle to house building.

Quote SloveniaDave at 25 May 2014 8.33pm

If I were you, I would not take up general science, never mind rocket science.

Thanks for the advice.....That's two situations where you are imagining you were me in one post.....Maybe you should just be happy with your Slovakian self Dave.


Edited by Stirlingsays (25 May 2014 9.25pm)

 

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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legaleagle Flag 25 May 14 9.25pm

Interesting that references to Australia's points- based immigration system are coming up.

Its not dissimilar to the general EU approach to non- EU migrants. The EU issue is the free market in labour and goods within the EU, which is pretty fundamental as a general principle to the EU project. The EU has the opposite of an open door policy to those from outside.

Australia combines the points system with a very positive general commitment to a multicultural society and a general attitude of welcoming migrants from different cultures.

Within this, Australia had its own UKIP-type party ,led by Pauline Hanson, called One Nation which was about blaming migrants for more than their fair share of the country's ills,keeping "traditional culture" and stopping it being "swamped" by migrants. After a few years, it slid back into obscurity....

Rather than the difference between EU open markets in people and goods, and a points-based system, maybe it comes down to whether or not a country actively welcomes migration in principle, actively promotes multiculturalism or, rather, is intrinsically opposed to "swamping" by immigration of people from different cultures and blames immigrants for far wider ills.


 
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