This

Its like watching Gary Borrowdale up against Ronaldinho in his prime.

Considering the EU wanted 100bn, and we're potentially paying 38bn. I'd say that is more beneficial to us?

So,my loyalties aren't with the UK eh,Stirling?Enemies of People nowadaysbeing anyone you disagree with?

A four year old can see that we are in a complete mess with our stance and have been out negotiated to date.

Edited by legaleagle (21 Nov 2017 9.24am)

What? The EU simply want what we signed up for. The budget we agreed to, the RaL we signed up for and our share of the contingent liabilities to which we are jointly liable. The €100bn reported in the press was an estimate of this number, not an opening gambit from the EU. The UK are now saying OK we agree on the RaL, sorry for being such morons and messing you all about for 7 months.

All this talk of figures is the UK press and the Brexit loonies trying to make games of it. This should be a fairly straightforward element of the negotiation, but because Boris etc. know that when the press turn these into gross figures they will make it out that the government has caved in or is inept or paying too much. The truth is no EU government will want to have their own press writing stories that they agreed to a deal that means their citizens are paying more to cover a shortfall caused by the UK leaving, so the UK has to pay its dues, or there will be no discussion on a trade deal.

We are being made a laughing stock because people like you listen to unelected officials that run the EU.

Imagine if Nigel Farage was our leader who was not voted on in anyway. Imagine the uproar. But it's okay because it's the EU.

Fact - David and DexEU said the location of these agencies would be determined in the negotiations.

Fact - Those agencies, just over 6 months into the negotiations, are leaving the UK, taking over 1000 high skilled jobs with them.

Therefore, applying simple logic (in line with Davis' own comments) the negotiations are not going well, seeing as we're already losing jobs that we were told would be up for discussion.

Add to this the failure to move on from the initial talks over the Brexit bill and Irish border and citizens rights as planned in October. Another failure.

So far it's been a catalogue of errors and incompetence. The fact that we're now folding on the issue of RaL, 7 months after we should have just agreed the principle, is another symbol of this governments cloth eared slow witted thinking.

We still have no plan for the Irish border. No plan for financial services. No plan for businesses. No transition deal. No plan for customs. No plan for pretty much anything. The government is too divided and too incompetent to make this work.