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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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kevlee Flag born Wandsworth emigrated to Lanc... 02 Mar 22 9.35pm Send a Private Message to kevlee Add kevlee as a friend

The way Putin is pounding Ukraine there won’t be much left in 2 weeks and jus invasion will be complete.
And Russia will be a pariah for years to come with a busted economy. There is no way they are coming back from this.


 


Following Palace since 25 Feb 1978

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 9.42pm

Originally posted by kevlee

The way Putin is pounding Ukraine there won’t be much left in 2 weeks and jus invasion will be complete.
And Russia will be a pariah for years to come with a busted economy. There is no way they are coming back from this.


Regardless of how the invasion pans out, the majority of Ukrainians will despise and reject the occupation. This will likely roll on for years regardless of the short term outcome. The people will not forget and Russia can't afford Afghanistan 2.0 .

 

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Teddy Eagle Flag 02 Mar 22 9.43pm Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think the problem is actually that that isn't true. It's a favourite myth of the right to try to avoid being found guilty by association. Nothing I have ever read suggests that 20th century fascism "started on the left". It had elements of capitalism and socialism but was really neither. It might take its name from Roman times, but what's in a name?

Try reading this:-

[Link]

This is an extract:-

"The first fascist movements arose in the last years of World War I. They were a form of radical nationalism carrying a promise of national rebirth; they blamed liberalism, socialism, and materialism for the decadence they perceived in society and culture, and they expressed an appreciation for violence and the role of leadership and willpower in shaping society.

One significant fascist economic belief was that prosperity would naturally follow once the nation has achieved a cultural and spiritual re-awakening".

Familiar sentiments? You can read things like this on Gab. Fascism might not be called fascism any more, but it still lurks in our politics.

Whether Putin is a truly fascist is not the point. He certainly carries some of its baggage, and a lot more besides.

Whilst removing Putin won't change the way Russia operates immediately it should make a massive difference pretty quickly. Much of what is being done is not in Russia's ultimate interests. It's a personal crusade by Putin.

Does any of that matter? The countless millions who died in Russia, China, Eastern Europe, Africa, North Korea, etc won’t have gained much comfort by knowing they weren’t killed by a right-wing Government.

 

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Henry of Peckham Flag Eton Mess 02 Mar 22 9.45pm Send a Private Message to Henry of Peckham Add Henry of Peckham as a friend

Originally posted by Grumbles

Out of all posters your have been more factual rather than opinion.

TBH, i think it will spiral into a European war.

Do you think so? NATO will act as one but I don't believe anyone has the appetite to fight Russia. The longer it takes to subjugate Ukraine then the riskier it becomes for Putin and his cronies. His main threat will probably come from within Russia.

 


Denial is not just a river in Egypt

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 9.59pm

Originally posted by Grumbles

Out of all posters your have been more factual rather than opinion.

TBH, i think it will spiral into a European war.

But will they be wearing face masks? And what about the passenger locator form and vaccine certificate.

And anyway has Schrodinger's convoy started moving yet?

Edited by BlueJay (02 Mar 2022 10.02pm)

 

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W12 02 Mar 22 10.02pm

Originally posted by BlueJay

At least you're alive and well and able to express such free speech. Several innocent citizens in Ukraine unfortunately cannot say the same now, and of course if you were in Russia, you'd likely be arrested and caged for protesting (along with thousands of others right now, including children) if your particular view was reversed and critical of their country. Or maybe falling off a balcony or poisoned if you amped up the volume too much. Still, that's a 'strong leader' for you I guess .

Edited by BlueJay (02 Mar 2022 9.30pm)

Not for much f***ing longer mate because all this is in the pipeline:

1. Remove individual rights in favour of "the greater good" (human right act reform Bill)
2. Legalise many agencies to commit crime (Covert Human Intelligence Act)
3. Remove the right to protest (Police Crime and Sentencing Bill)
4. Criminalise "misinformation" (Online Safety Bill)
5. Criminalise "whistleblowers" (Counter State Threats Bill)

 

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W12 02 Mar 22 10.08pm

There is also legislation allowing the government to ignore court rulings but I don’t have the details to hand.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 10.09pm

Originally posted by W12

Not for much f***ing longer mate because all this is in the pipeline:

1. Remove individual rights in favour of "the greater good" (human right act reform Bill)
2. Legalise many agencies to commit crime (Covert Human Intelligence Act)
3. Remove the right to protest (Police Crime and Sentencing Bill)
4. Criminalise "misinformation" (Online Safety Bill)
5. Criminalise "whistleblowers" (Counter State Threats Bill)


Well I'm certainly with you on that, as I am firmly against all of these infringements of liberty. I commented on here frequently about that 'Kill the Bill' march, where they sought to demonise those legitimately protesting something that's to my mind disturbing. Stories of police with 'broken arms' literally confirmed by police, that turned out to be b0llocks. I'm against all of this stuff as they play left against right (with one group thumbing the eye of the other) to get approval for all of these attacks on freedoms. This benefits no-one as they can be used by any government in power, so impact us all, and they never row any of this stuff back.

An ageing population not getting technology, and a younger one with no concept of privacy unfortunately combine to create a future where a lot of this stuff may be pass unquestioned.


 

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 10.13pm

Originally posted by W12

There is also legislation allowing the government to ignore court rulings but I don’t have the details to hand.

Yes, I posted about this on here too. None of this stuff gets much traction, which is a pity as there's a decent cross section politically who are very worried about this stuff.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 10.14pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay


If Putin had stepped down say a year back he would have been remembered as a formidable and savvy leader. History would've, to some extent, ironed out the evils. He appears though, to have thrown all of the away to the detriment of his people and devastation of his neighbours. Did he expect cheering crowds as the tanks rolled in? If he was more strategic, he could have taken Donbas and faced fewer repercussions. Putin has bought into his very own Afghanistan and at best will become a hated occupier. Increasingly detached from the lives and priorities of his people, this is the result.

Unless there is some dramatic change I think Putin would have to be rather stupid to agree to a peace treaty that placed a pro EU government in Ukraine. So I regard the idea of continual warfare as unrealistic. At the very worst it will be a neutral state.

What is more likely is that East Ukraine will be populated by Russians similar to how China has populated Tibet with Han.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 10.18pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

I think the problem is actually that that isn't true. It's a favourite myth of the right to try to avoid being found guilty by association. Nothing I have ever read suggests that 20th century fascism "started on the left". It had elements of capitalism and socialism but was really neither. It might take its name from Roman times, but what's in a name?

Try reading this:-

[Link]

This is an extract:-

"The first fascist movements arose in the last years of World War I. They were a form of radical nationalism carrying a promise of national rebirth; they blamed liberalism, socialism, and materialism for the decadence they perceived in society and culture, and they expressed an appreciation for violence and the role of leadership and willpower in shaping society.

One significant fascist economic belief was that prosperity would naturally follow once the nation has achieved a cultural and spiritual re-awakening".

Familiar sentiments? You can read things like this on Gab. Fascism might not be called fascism any more, but it still lurks in our politics.

Whether Putin is a truly fascist is not the point. He certainly carries some of its baggage, and a lot more besides.

Whilst removing Putin won't change the way Russia operates immediately it should make a massive difference pretty quickly. Much of what is being done is not in Russia's ultimate interests. It's a personal crusade by Putin.

I don't want to sidetrack down a long path of he said/she said. The only thing we agree on is on how people like to reframe...oh yes, they certainly do and it's usually in line with an agenda.

I'll end with the fact that Hitler, the most known fascist for example, literally said, 'I am a socialist' and the Nazis (not a name they used) were literally called 'National Socialists'.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 10.19pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Unless there is some dramatic change I think Putin would have to be rather stupid to agree to a peace treaty that placed a pro EU government in Ukraine. So I regard the idea of continual warfare as unrealistic. At the very worst it will be a neutral state.

What is more likely is that East Ukraine will be populated by Russians similar to how China has populated Tibet with Han.

He most certainly won't want to lose face, and so I see this rumbling on. At the same time the sanctions are certainly having a big impact and I can't see those easing up anytime soon either. A neutral state would be a solution that could essentially square the circle so I can certainly see the merits of it. Whether both Putin and the Ukrainian people are willing to accept that, we will have to see. It may depend how much the invasion escalates prior.


 

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