You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Israel / Palestine
November 24 2024 8.29pm

This page is no longer updated, and is the old forum. For new topics visit the New HOL forum.

Israel / Palestine

Previous Topic | Next Topic


Page 85 of 134 < 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 >

  

legaleagle Flag 31 Jul 14 8.46pm

and very recently indeed...

[Link]

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
matt_himself Flag Matataland 31 Jul 14 8.59pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

[Link]

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 31 Jul 14 9.04pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2014 8.46pm

and very recently indeed...

[Link]


In all fairness, Britain has carried out its fair share of killing over the years - more than its fair share considering its size. Still it does not really retract from anything the Isreali military are doing at present.
I will say something though - the second world war was brought up earlier and the precision of weapons was brought into it. The average accuracy of bombing during WWII was something like a bomb could be expected to hit somewhere within a few kilometres of its target.
Modern warfare may not be entirely accurate (perhaps around 40-70%). However, once the guns are zeroed in there really should not be this problem of accuracy today. Of course, there will be the odd stray shell, mortar or rocket but the systems the Isreali's use should have accuracy of perhaps hitting within 5m of their target.
This seems to bring into question the seemingly constant stream of playgrounds, hospitals, schools etc being hit. Seems like perhaps the military do not hold quite the same respect for human life that government spokespeople do?

 


Red and Blue Army!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
legaleagle Flag 31 Jul 14 9.08pm

Sure. Two wrongs definitely don't make a right. But, sometimes, we do forget to look in our own back garden too...

You would have thought the drones would have the same 5m precision...


Israel's military, like our's, works very much under government direction and guidelines.

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2014 9.10pm)

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2014 9.11pm)

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Stirlingsays Flag 31 Jul 14 9.12pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote ASCPFC at 31 Jul 2014 9.04pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2014 8.46pm

and very recently indeed...

[Link]


In all fairness, Britain has carried out its fair share of killing over the years - more than its fair share considering its size. Still it does not really retract from anything the Isreali military are doing at present.
I will say something though - the second world war was brought up earlier and the precision of weapons was brought into it. The average accuracy of bombing during WWII was something like a bomb could be expected to hit somewhere within a few kilometres of its target.
Modern warfare may not be entirely accurate (perhaps around 40-70%). However, once the guns are zeroed in there really should not be this problem of accuracy today. Of course, there will be the odd stray shell, mortar or rocket but the systems the Isreali's use should have accuracy of perhaps hitting within 5m of their target.
This seems to bring into question the seemingly constant stream of playgrounds, hospitals, schools etc being hit. Seems like perhaps the military do not hold quite the same respect for human life that government spokespeople do?


A military that respects human life?.....Mmmmm.

They are the tip of the spear. Killing people is what they are paid and trained for.

As for hospitals, playgrounds and the like......The UN estimates that there are over 200,000 Gazan civilians using their facilities.

If the Israelis really wanted to kill civilians.....Then what you think is a slaughter right now would look vastly different.

I think there is some possible traction in Hamas using supposedly 'protected' areas to fight from or near.....It makes military sense from their point of view if you take the ethics out of it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Jul 2014 9.14pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
ASCPFC Flag Pro-Cathedral/caravan park 31 Jul 14 9.17pm Send a Private Message to ASCPFC Add ASCPFC as a friend

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2014 9.08pm

Sure. Two wrongs definitely don't make a right. But, sometimes, we do forget to look in our own back garden too...

You would have thought the drones would have the same 5m precision...


Israel's military, like our's, works very much under government direction and guidelines.

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2014 9.10pm)

Edited by legaleagle (31 Jul 2014 9.11pm)

'Government spokespeople' was really a tongue in cheek comment. More I meant that when the spokespeople are saying kids and civilians are not being targetted that does not seem to mirror the situation on the ground. Presumably, like most politicians world-wide, they are lying or putting their own spin on it.
I like to believe that most soldiers will not necessarily kill innocent people, however, I do not go along with 'I was just following orders' excuses - which we have all heard before.

 


Red and Blue Army!

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 31 Jul 14 11.33pm

72 hr 'Unconditional' humanitarian ceasefire agreed between Israel and Hamas.
[Link]

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Jimenez Flag SELHURSTPARKCHESTER,DA BRONX 01 Aug 14 12.06am Send a Private Message to Jimenez Add Jimenez as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 31 Jul 2014 11.33pm

72 hr 'Unconditional' humanitarian ceasefire agreed between Israel and Hamas.
[Link]


Then lets hope Hamas stick to it then, along with Israel of course....

 


Pro USA & Israel

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 01 Aug 14 12.25am

It’s so easy to be an Israeli; your tender conscience is pure as the driven snow: Everything is Hamas’ fault. The rockets are the fault of Hamas; that can be taken for granted. Hamas started the war, for no reason; that, too, “goes without saying.” Hamas is a vicious terrorist organization, beasts in human form, born to kill, fundamentalists – and apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

Some 400,000 Palestinians have been displaced. More than 1,200 have been killed, about 80 percent of them civilians, half of these women and children. Around 50 families have been obliterated, their homes bombed with them inside. It has reached the dimensions of a real massacre. But Israelis’ hands are clean and their consciences are quiet – so quiet you could cry. It’s Hamas’ fault.

We’ll leave the root causes of this cursed repression and denial to the psychologists. Since the days when Israel accused the Palestinians of killing their own children by means of the Israel Defense Forces, we haven’t seen such denial. After incubating for years, the disease is now a raging epidemic whose carriers are now symptomatic. The national conscience hasn’t moved a muscle in response to this atrocity, and there are forces working to keep it that way.

But even through the malignant cloud of denial, even understanding how easy it is to blame everything on Hamas — Israel has never had such a convenient enemy, which can be framed for all its sins – we must ask whether everything really is the fault of Hamas. Is Israel genuinely completely innocent? In the face of bleeding, ruined Gaza, the work of Israeli hands, such denial is incomprehensible.

Hamas is a vicious terror organization? How has it been more vicious than the IDF in this war? In that it doesn’t “knock on the roof” 80 seconds before bombing a home? That it aims its rockets at civilian populations, just as the IDF does, but less effectively? That it wants to destroy Israel? How many Israelis want to destroy Gaza? Meanwhile, everyone knows who is destroying whom.

Israel’s sanctimoniousness reaches a peak in its concern for Gaza’s residents: Look at how Hamas oppresses them, cry the Israeli democrats, so solicitous of Palestinian rights. Hamas is tyrannical, but its tyranny is nothing compared to that of Israel, which has subjected the Gaza Strip to a seven-year siege and a 47-year occupation.

What has destroyed Gaza’s society and economy is above all the siege, and thanks to those who seek its welfare, who imposed it. Thanks also to those who are worried about its lack of democracy, who are shocked by the corruption, who denounce its leaders for staying in luxury hotels or hiding in bunkers, who are troubled by the enormous sums used for tunnels and rockets instead of playgrounds and after-school activities. Truly, thanks.

What about Israel? Do its leaders live in tents? Aren’t enormous sums spent on superfluous submarines and secret explosives, instead of on health, education and welfare? Hamas is fundamentalist? Israel is on the way. Hamas oppresses women? That’s bad, but Israel has that too, at least in one large community.

Why did Gazans elect Hamas, instead of a moderate leadership? Because the moderates have been trying for years to achieve something, anything, and all they have received is humiliation and Israeli rejectionism. Has Israel given the Palestinians a reason to choose the Palestine Liberation Organization’s route of diplomacy over Hamas’ violent resistance? Has the PLO brought them an inch closer to statehood or freedom?

Hamas at least won the release of 1,000 prisoners and also preserved a measure of self-respect, even at the terrible price that the desperate Gazans are now willing to pay. What has Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas brought his people? Nothing. A photo op with Barack Obama.

I’m no fan of Hamas, quite the contrary. But Israel’s attempt to put all the blame on Hamas is outrageous. The international community will soon judge this war’s atrocities. Hamas may be reprimanded, deservedly, but Israel will be condemned and ostracized far more. And then Israelis will say, ‘It’s Hamas’ fault. And the world will laugh.[i]
[Link]

 

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Quote this post in a reply
Red-Blue-Yellow Flag Surrey 01 Aug 14 12.46am Send a Private Message to Red-Blue-Yellow Add Red-Blue-Yellow as a friend

Before any of our Right Wing 'chums' kick off at Nick....
The piece he has posted above was written by the thoroughly Kosher Gideon Levy.

 


I also enjoy posting on: Love Everton Forum, the Acceptable Face of Scouse Football.
[Link]
twitter.com/LuvEvertonForum
Come and give it a look, new members would be lovely.
Come and JOIN.
Or they'll nick your telly.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Red-Blue-Yellow Flag Surrey 01 Aug 14 12.53am Send a Private Message to Red-Blue-Yellow Add Red-Blue-Yellow as a friend

Quote Stirlingsays at 31 Jul 2014 9.12pm

Quote ASCPFC at 31 Jul 2014 9.04pm

Quote legaleagle at 31 Jul 2014 8.46pm

and very recently indeed...

[Link]


In all fairness, Britain has carried out its fair share of killing over the years - more than its fair share considering its size. Still it does not really retract from anything the Isreali military are doing at present.
I will say something though - the second world war was brought up earlier and the precision of weapons was brought into it. The average accuracy of bombing during WWII was something like a bomb could be expected to hit somewhere within a few kilometres of its target.
Modern warfare may not be entirely accurate (perhaps around 40-70%). However, once the guns are zeroed in there really should not be this problem of accuracy today. Of course, there will be the odd stray shell, mortar or rocket but the systems the Isreali's use should have accuracy of perhaps hitting within 5m of their target.
This seems to bring into question the seemingly constant stream of playgrounds, hospitals, schools etc being hit. Seems like perhaps the military do not hold quite the same respect for human life that government spokespeople do?


A military that respects human life?.....Mmmmm.

They are the tip of the spear. Killing people is what they are paid and trained for.

As for hospitals, playgrounds and the like......The UN estimates that there are over 200,000 Gazan civilians using their facilities.

If the Israelis really wanted to kill civilians.....Then what you think is a slaughter right now would look vastly different.

I think there is some possible traction in Hamas using supposedly 'protected' areas to fight from or near.....It makes military sense from their point of view if you take the ethics out of it.

Edited by Stirlingsays (31 Jul 2014 9.14pm)


That's one of those obvious facts that turns out to be completely wrong. A bloodless victory is the aim of every properly trained and led military. The preservation of life is the reason for the existance of National Armed Forces.
This alone is reason enough to brand Israel as a Terrorist State.

Edited by Red-Blue-Yellow (01 Aug 2014 12.55am)

 


I also enjoy posting on: Love Everton Forum, the Acceptable Face of Scouse Football.
[Link]
twitter.com/LuvEvertonForum
Come and give it a look, new members would be lovely.
Come and JOIN.
Or they'll nick your telly.

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply
Stirlingsays Flag 01 Aug 14 1.32am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Quote Red-Blue-Yellow at 01 Aug 2014 12.53am

That's one of those obvious facts that turns out to be completely wrong. A bloodless victory is the aim of every properly trained and led military. The preservation of life is the reason for the existance of National Armed Forces.
This alone is reason enough to brand Israel as a Terrorist State.

Edited by Red-Blue-Yellow (01 Aug 2014 12.55am)

Man alive....I've read it all now.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

Alert Alert a moderator to this post Edit this post Quote this post in a reply

  

Page 85 of 134 < 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 >

Previous Topic | Next Topic

You are here: Home > Message Board > News & Politics > Israel / Palestine