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Kermit8 Hevon 23 Oct 17 4.51pm | |
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Originally posted by Kermit8
Prize of a date with Hedgie, Hrolf and Stirling at Billy Bragg's concert at Royal Festival Hall in January for whomever writes the 10,000th post.
A gentle reminder/warning
Big chest and massive boobs |
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hedgehog50 Croydon 23 Oct 17 4.52pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I imagine it's for safety and cars run off their batteries. Post Brexit there is an opportunity to make our laws ensure all aspects of travel are more environmentally friendly and world leading. Will that happen? Not with this government. Wasted opportunity. How much does it add to global warming?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Oct 17 4.59pm | |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
So all the vehicles which were built from 2006 and are polluting the atmosphere are unaffected. Also the MOT test should be strengthened to eliminate the polluting vehicles regardless of when they were made. I believe the criteria for T-charge is based on a car's "Euro" rating. So has to be at least Euro-4, rising to Euro-6 in a few years to avoid the charge. The Euro ratings are also designed to become more stringent over time. This demonstrates the issue. We could be more bold by having much better UK car ratings and stopping high polluting vehicles from going into urban areas once we leave the EU. The government could though forget about it and allow dangerous vehicles where they like. There are huge numbers of schools in London in areas with illegally high and dangerous levels of pollution. These also happen to be schools with higher percentages of free school meals and the report was only recently published, having been suppressed by Boris: Serious problem, which requires serious solutions. Outside the EU I think we stand at serious risk of it getting worse, but there is real opportunity to make it better.
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Oct 17 5.00pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
How much does it add to global warming? What having the lights on? Whatever petrol it uses to charge the battery that little extra bit. Probably not a lot, but will be different once cars are all electric I imagine. More like a household light.
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hedgehog50 Croydon 23 Oct 17 5.08pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
What having the lights on? Whatever petrol it uses to charge the battery that little extra bit. Probably not a lot, but will be different once cars are all electric I imagine. More like a household light. So the hundreds of millions of cars in Europe having their lights on all the time emitting heat will not generate a lot of heat! All because some official in the EU decrees it.
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Oct 17 5.14pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
So the hundreds of millions of cars in Europe having their lights on all the time emitting heat will not generate a lot of heat! All because some official in the EU decrees it. Unless you have data I can't really say. I know there are safety reasons behind this. As I previously said, leaving the EU gives us a chance to set our own laws on things like this for cars to be used in the UK (I imagine ones sold in the EU will still have to have this feature). The question is whether we will take this opportunity to really make a difference to the environment and air quality. It's the biggest challenge we face so I'd hope so. Sadly with the current lot I think they will only make things worse. I bet for one thing the lights will still have to be on in the day!
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hedgehog50 Croydon 23 Oct 17 5.21pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
Unless you have data I can't really say. I know there are safety reasons behind this. As I previously said, leaving the EU gives us a chance to set our own laws on things like this for cars to be used in the UK (I imagine ones sold in the EU will still have to have this feature). The question is whether we will take this opportunity to really make a difference to the environment and air quality. It's the biggest challenge we face so I'd hope so. Sadly with the current lot I think they will only make things worse. I bet for one thing the lights will still have to be on in the day! You need data! Surely a learned chap like you can accept that lights generate heat?
We have now sunk to a depth at which the restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men. [Orwell] |
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Stuk Top half 23 Oct 17 5.21pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
That's totally incorrect. Evidence is clear that such schemes all over the world cause changes in behaviour. You're suggesting the congestion charge has had zero impact on volume of vehicles in the congestion zone (in fact you've said numbers have gone up). Multiple sources report the impact, here is just one: To suggest otherwise ignores fact. Data shows that the only class of vehicle showing increased activity in CC zone and wider central London and delivery vehicles due to rise in e-commerce, something that can be easily tackled by using delivery hubs around London rather than simply doing single drops offs. Removing laws and targets set by the EU that require reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and improvements in air quality will definitely make things worse and pretending otherwise is wilful ignorance. To turn a blind eye to the opportunities will make Brexit a failure. More needs to be done, not less as this government would like. Here is this government's priority: [Link] Wasting our money in a bid to avoid tacking the crisis in air quality and pollution. Here is another: Research by the AA found that despite traffic volumes falling within the zone, speeds became slower over the decade, as a result of road space being turned into bus lanes, cycle and pedestrian safety measures, and roadworks. It said that roads were now so clogged, emissions of PM10 soot particles from car tyres and brakes were greater than from exhausts because of the amount of starting and stopping. But it had raised a few billion in revenue, most of which was pissed away on the administration of it.
Optimistic as ever |
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Stuk Top half 23 Oct 17 5.27pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
What rubbish. The whole point is that the government is meant to set laws and create the incentives for everyone and set an example. We all need to do more, but the government more than any single person as they have the power to do so. Who's been suggesting the public should do this all by themselves? My point has been in my posts that this will soon become the responsibility of our government and their stance will be to make things worse when they should be tackling the problem. It's not achievable, we'll have to disagree. I'm not doing more (i.e. paying more) while the rest of the planet are wilfully f***ing it up far more than I am. Once the government are zero polluting they can ask the rest of us to follow suit, should the far bigger emitting countries sort their acts out too. Until then, it's a revenue raising task and nothing more.
Optimistic as ever |
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Stuk Top half 23 Oct 17 5.29pm | |
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Originally posted by CambridgeEagle
I believe the criteria for T-charge is based on a car's "Euro" rating. So has to be at least Euro-4, rising to Euro-6 in a few years to avoid the charge. The Euro ratings are also designed to become more stringent over time. This demonstrates the issue. We could be more bold by having much better UK car ratings and stopping high polluting vehicles from going into urban areas once we leave the EU. The government could though forget about it and allow dangerous vehicles where they like. There are huge numbers of schools in London in areas with illegally high and dangerous levels of pollution. These also happen to be schools with higher percentages of free school meals and the report was only recently published, having been suppressed by Boris: Serious problem, which requires serious solutions. Outside the EU I think we stand at serious risk of it getting worse, but there is real opportunity to make it better. It is. Why isn't it based on real world emissions? A euro 6 engine can easily pollute more than a euro 3 or 4 engine depending on the car, fuel etc.
Optimistic as ever |
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nickgusset Shizzlehurst 23 Oct 17 5.34pm | |
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The Conservative government is hiding more than 50 Brexit reports not only from the public, but from parliament. Former Brexit minister David Jones has confirmed that the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU) has “conducted analysis of over 50 sectors of the economy”. Apparently there's going to be a foi case in court to try and get the documents released. Are they not being released because they paint an Armageddonesque picture or do they need to keep it secret for other reasons?
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CambridgeEagle Sydenham 23 Oct 17 6.29pm | |
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Originally posted by hedgehog50
You need data! Surely a learned chap like you can accept that lights generate heat? Yes, but the main heat related issue is greenhouse gases causing heat from the sun to be retained and causing global warming. The far bigger issue with cars is emissions and what that does not only in terms of CO2 but also to our bodies in terms of Nitrous Oxide and other harmful particulates. Despite me pointing out opportunities with Brexit you seem to be simply arguing over something quite trivial.
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