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Ukraine Situation - Should We Be Worried?

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W12 02 Mar 22 3.07pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

So you think that the invasion of a sovereign country and the bombardment of civilian areas is not 'bad'.

Threatening world peace is OK with you?

It's a war that's nothing to do with us. I don't see any bombardment of civilian areas by Russian forces. Many people predicted this will happen mainly based on the actions of NATO and the EU.

 

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BlueJay Flag UK 02 Mar 22 3.09pm

Originally posted by georgenorman

Russell Brand! Seriously?

I know he's derided as some kind of jester, but that was almost largely a persona really. There is a thoughtful person behind that and his ideas come from a good place. He's open to people of different perspectives as long as its in good faith and they approach it as such. It could be argued I suppose, that he could possibly be used by people to somewhat sanitise their full perspective, and that there are sometimes dangers in that, but I see no alternative really where there is a desire to converse with various outlooks, and at a time where doing so is almost taboo I think it's good to have people like him around. He's a kind of moderating factor.. and yes I know that's a weird thing to be saying about Russell Brand of all people, but there's some truth to it.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 3.10pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

In Putin's case the use of "fascist" is not that inaccurate. A short definition says:-

"Fascism is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition".

We would all like our children to grow up, but the west's response is hopefully a carefully calculated way of ensuring that actually happens. We must remove this man from power and rebuild the relationship with Russia on a collaborative, rather than confrontational basis.

It's going to get very awkward for some years, and we really do need to stay together and keep cool.

I think the problem with that definition is the use of 'far right'. Anyone who knows the history of fascism knows that it started on the left. Fascism is best summed up as the 'bundle of sticks'....it's nationalism/statism mixed with socialism. Obviously in the modern day nationalism is no longer associated with the mainstream left...which is literally anti nationalist. Anyway like all movements Fascism comes in different versions.

Yes, we don't want a wider war when a nuclear exchange could literally kill all of us in the developed world.

What is happening is Cold War 2....Putin might go or he might not, but even if he does it won't change the general regime.

A problem with how the media represents things is that Russia isn't alone on the world stage....it has the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) and this idea that it can't continue just ignores all that....What is happening is literally disastrous for world cohesion.

The war drums need to go quieter and negotiations with Russia to build an acceptable peace for all parties should be the governmental and media focus.

But at the moment it's like some kind of cartoon.

Edited by Stirlingsays (02 Mar 2022 3.12pm)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Grumbles 02 Mar 22 3.14pm Send a Private Message to Grumbles Add Grumbles as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays


I'm starting to believe that you're the kind of guy who buys the Daily Mirror for the pictures.

Typical SS only the insult.

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 3.15pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Grumbles

Typical SS only the insult.

I thought it was rather amusing myself.

Apologies if you read the text as well.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Grumbles 02 Mar 22 3.16pm Send a Private Message to Grumbles Add Grumbles as a friend

Originally posted by BlueJay

Yes, I think people should be critical of all that they take in, including what they chose to be aligned to on account of such lack of trust (as distrust can often be used as an 'in' for those selling their own snake oil or blinkered, dead end outlooks). A mid point and holistic take is likely the best approach by taking in media of various perspectives that can be ascertained to have a degree of accuracy and honesty to it.

Edited by BlueJay (02 Mar 2022 2.34pm)

True, for example the tractor that tows away the "Russian" APC. The troop carrier turns from tracked to wheeled halfway through.

 

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Rudi Hedman Flag Caterham 02 Mar 22 3.16pm Send a Private Message to Rudi Hedman Add Rudi Hedman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

That's a good thing? No doubt you would have regarded Stalin, Hitler, Mau, Genghis Khan and Pol Pot, to name a few at random, as "alpha males"! Admire them too?

Whilst globalism is a thing, globalists are not. Globalism is a consequence of a changed world. One that has arrived through circumstance and not been created by man. Internationalists understand this and have learned how to live with it. Commerce always enriches some, whatever system exists. Globalism though enriches the many, not just the few. In this case the many who live in the underdeveloped world and not the few who live in the overdeveloped world.

We are being diverted. The only "alpha male" whose actions demand he be restrained at present is Putin.

I think anyone who apologises for, tries to justify, or excuse, what Putin is doing needs to take a good hard look at their values and sense of morality.

Overcrowded world. The underdeveloped world is looking such a good prospect that millions upon millions leave for Europe all the time. What a success story.

 


COYP

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Mar 22 3.17pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by W12

It's a war that's nothing to do with us. I don't see any bombardment of civilian areas by Russian forces. Many people predicted this will happen mainly based on the actions of NATO and the EU.

This is not happening in a bubble.

It has a major impact on food and fuel supply, as well as the displacement of people.

It also threatens escalation, since we don't know Putin's mental state.
He is endangering world peace and will only respect strength.

You better hope he is smart enough to know where to stop, or that he even cares about the potential consequences of his actions.


Edited by Hrolf The Ganger (02 Mar 2022 3.18pm)

 

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Grumbles 02 Mar 22 3.19pm Send a Private Message to Grumbles Add Grumbles as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I thought it was rather amusing myself.

Apologies if you read the text as well.

it is funny when get so far to the right that you are agreeing with the Trotskyites that you so despise.

Careful posting those youtube links.

 

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Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 02 Mar 22 3.22pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

I think that's an excellent post.

I think that while we all come down to positions on topics, it's also true that no position is perfect and criticisms of them should be accepted discourse in a free society worthy of the name.

Brand, would obviously disagree with me in certain areas. However, I'm in that old school that respects honesty regardless of what side it's on. I regard Brand highly as both a truth seeker and someone committed to ethics.

Use to teach his articles during pastoral mornings as excellent and amusing English usage.

I agree entirely.

I do struggle to afford time to those whose absolute commitment to a position renders them unable to see logic or admit fault in their position when it is sufficiently countered whether that be a 'left wing nut-job' or 'right wing lunatic'.

Very much a summary of society for me these days in that there are ideological wars being raged by members on both sides who I would be inclined to think, but not fully committed to (and willing to admit it may be a very cruel statement), have failed to garner attention or find solace via their personalities or achievements in life, hence attaching and identifying themselves through no doubt somebody else's thoughts and opinions who they ultimately trust and believe in more than their own.

In this instance, I myself believe I have a healthy scepticism for both the mainstream and alternate media and choose to reach my own conclusions. In this particular situation, I do find it lunacy to invest belief in absolute truth of either Western or Eastern media/reporting/motives however struggle to bring myself to justify any war or human suffering, let alone this one.

I prefer to break it down to it's simplest component, and happy to factually state I struggle to feel to deeply for things that do not directly affect me (as I'd suggest many do), but seeing the displacement of peoples, death, panic etc. does ignite a primal instinct in me to condemn it, especially when I am very far from convinced by the reasoning behind it. A punch up at football, drunkenly in a pub etc. are not beyond me to comprehend or claim innocence from being involved in (embarrassingly I don't have a great track record with abstaining from violence in confrontations, although that was in the main as a younger man growing up in Lewisham.. and never at football) but this whole thing stinks to high heaven and any justification of it seems to be either weak or almost fictitious if not completely so.

War is, and almost always will be, an epic f**king failure on behalf of human beings.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards Hrolf The Ganger Flag 02 Mar 22 3.22pm Send a Private Message to Hrolf The Ganger Add Hrolf The Ganger as a friend

Originally posted by Grumbles

it is funny when get so far to the right that you are agreeing with the Trotskyites that you so despise.

Careful posting those youtube links.

Who did you used to be Grumbles?

 

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Stirlingsays Flag 02 Mar 22 3.27pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

Originally posted by Grumbles

it is funny when get so far to the right that you are agreeing with the Trotskyites that you so despise.

Careful posting those youtube links.

I only despise liars and those that are willing to hurt the innocent.

If a man is honest I will listen to him regardless of his position.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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