Hang on. Before I get further into this, was your 6k per year figure your estimate of cost post bursary, or a typo that meant to say per month. The way it’s written it comes across as 6k per year no bursary, which obviously is 14k short of reality.

OK.

Yes. An entry level private these days is about 20k a year. So probably 23k if the VAT increase comes in, as it's likely most schools will look to absorb some of the cost as it will get competitive fast.

Bursaries are means tested and the size of them (anything up to 100% discount) varies usually depending on both household earnings, family situation (eg. single parent household, finances diverted due to elderly dependents etc) and various other factors. Private schools also offer fee assistance in some cases, again to make sure they are competitive and get the best kids no matter the background.

But ultimately it's for families that are 'less privileged' 'working' or otherwise with bright kids to get access to the private system.

It is up to the parents to apply of course, but if you have one of the 'cleverest kids' and don't earn enough to pay ~1650 a month then providing the child passes the entry exam and you apply they'll be offered a bursary place.

It's designed to work for low income households with bright kids not middle class families who can afford it but would rather not sacrifice the SUV and the February skiing getaway.

Yes there will be edge cases where people will lose out from the VAT increase but IMO if a family can afford 1650 a month they can afford the extra 250 on top p/m to pay for the VAT.

Not sure what you mean about the state subsidising private school entry though. Private schools offer these bursaries themselves to allow the brightest kids from low income families that would otherwise miss out to attend. Not sure state funding of private school places would ever be a thing...

And sure there will be loads of bright kids from low income families that don't get in to private schools – there are only, and can be only a finite number of bursary and fee discounted places otherwise the school would fold. Those places will only go to the brightest as well – it's a competitive system, the school doesn't want dross as it will fall down the table and attract less interest.

But to suggest that the brightest kids from working family backgrounds don't go to private school is inaccurate.

And just because you have money doesn't mean your kid gets in – they have to pass entrance and maintain levels year on year, otherwise they're out.

Edited by SW19 CPFC (17 Jun 2024 10.04pm)

Some schools thrive on an international pupil base with recruitment drives. In many cases these institutions operate networks of partner or feeder schools stretching around the world. Others are largely domestic and standalone.

Edited by RubinsCube (17 Jun 2024 10.28pm)

My Kids were born & raised in the UAE, so basically I paid for their education (Nursery / primary / secondary) for the primary & secondary parts my employer kicked in a contribution towards the cost (but it was still a bucket load of money)

When my 2 kids reached around 13 / 14 we took the decision to relocate them back to the UK with my wife & I followed on a year or 2 later.

Part of the reason for getting them back to the UK at that age was that if they attended University (despite them holding UK passports) if they had not physically been back in the UK for 3 years they would have been charged as international students & international students at Universities pay double the rate of local students.

Getting a place in a UK Secondary school was also a bit tricky - our choices were- Turn up at Tabener house in Croydon in the August & wait to be allocated a place in a Croydon school of the councils choosing with no guarantee that both kids would go to the same school, or find a school that handles their own admission policy & procedure, we did after loads of overseas phone calls manage to find a school ourselves.

Maybe Rubins knows whether international students pay increased rates at fee paying secondary schools ?

So by that definition, only food and water are not luxuries.

Are you sure?

Your idea of luxury is not someone else's.

Ultimately, very little is necessary. A TV is not necessary.
Your definition is too broad.

The whole idea of taxing education is backward.
The EU won't allow it. Remember the EU? Your lot wanted to stay in it.
Now you suddenly like the idea of retrograde, ideologically driven social engineering.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread so apologies for any duplication. I am state educated myself. But as a former teacher for around a decade working in two of the sorts of private boarding schools which levy fees in the regions quoted, I wanted to bring some practical context to the financial realities of what is being proposed.

There seems to be an assumption that most private schools which charge comparable fees operate similar business models with similar margins. This is not the case.

Some schools thrive on an international pupil base with recruitment drives. In many cases these institutions operate networks of partner or feeder schools stretching around the world. Others are largely domestic and standalone.

Additionally, many of the schools which this legislation would affect are financially solvent only because they operate on large numbers (headcount; fees) and thin margins (net profit).

Why is all this relevant? Should the legislation come in, many private schools would go the the wall and a higher number than anticipated would fold. They can't simply absorb the cost in many cases because of the wafer thin margins, irrespective of whether demand would suffer from increased prices.

Nor could they simply bump up the prices: doing that would increase the VAT liability. There are then practical considerations like how to grandfather in pupils where the family have already paid for education in advance, bursaries etc.

I would expect a situation where many schools close and there is a resultant influx of pupils into an already stretched state system.

If we want to homogenise schooling and ensure all our young people are state educated, then that is a different argument and a really valid one to have.

But to imagine that materially transformational sums of money can be gained by adding VAT to school fees is fanciful at best.

Edited by RubinsCube (17 Jun 2024 10.28pm)