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Stirlingsays 01 May 24 11.34am | |
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The social liberals of the last thirty years have eroded and then destroyed civil liberties in this country....in some instances in place for centuries. The word, 'liberal' is a parody.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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PalazioVecchio south pole 01 May 24 11.55am | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
The social liberals of the last thirty years have eroded and then destroyed civil liberties in this country....in some instances in place for centuries. The word, 'liberal' is a parody. Liberals Looney Lefties giving free money to lazy criminal fecund scumbags the World over. And meanwhile taxing you on your hard-earned toils. producing a society of slow Zebras, pizza ordering Lions and dim witted bipeds.
Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford |
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 May 24 12.45pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
That paragraph sums it up really. People can break the law for literally doing nothing - for merely physically existing in a public street. Other people can have you arrested by merely saying that they perceive you as some sort of threat. O'Brien from the Ministry of Truth would be proud of you. Edited by georgenorman (01 May 2024 11.31am) She wasn’t though “doing nothing”! A known activist was in a restricted area accompanied by video cameras. I doubt if anyone said they were intimidated or requested her arrest. It’s the call of the police to determine whether in their opinion her behaviour had the potential to intimidate. Not what she thought. Not what users of the centre thought, or even the centre itself thought. Just the police, based on behaviour alone and not what she claimed was in her head. Threats are not the issue. Intimidation is. That means being fearful of doing something you wish to do, in this case as a result of the behaviour of another. If the police thought her behaviour, whatever it was, had the potential to intimidate others within that zone, they were left with no choice.
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georgenorman 01 May 24 12.51pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
She wasn’t though “doing nothing”! A known activist was in a restricted area accompanied by video cameras. I doubt if anyone said they were intimidated or requested her arrest. It’s the call of the police to determine whether in their opinion her behaviour had the potential to intimidate. Not what she thought. Not what users of the centre thought, or even the centre itself thought. Just the police, based on behaviour alone and not what she claimed was in her head. Threats are not the issue. Intimidation is. That means being fearful of doing something you wish to do, in this case as a result of the behaviour of another. If the police thought her behaviour, whatever it was, had the potential to intimidate others within that zone, they were left with no choice. Right, so a tenant in one of your properties, who is afraid to turn a gas fire on because they think you have not had it serviced, should have you arrested as your behaviour has put them in fear of doing something they wish to do. Edited by georgenorman (01 May 2024 12.54pm)
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 May 24 1.38pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Right, so a tenant in one of your properties, who is afraid to turn a gas fire on because they think you have not had it serviced, should have you arrested as your behaviour has put them in fear of doing something they wish to do. Edited by georgenorman (01 May 2024 12.54pm) Firstly, they wouldn’t because none of my properties have gas connected. Secondly, if there was gas, they would call me because they all know and trust me so if a service was overdue they know it would swiftly be attended to. Thirdly, as none of my rental properties are in a restricted zone the same considerations do not apply. A more relevant analogy would be a pedestrian deciding to sit in the middle of a motorway. Something that nutters like extinction rebellion might just try. Whilst obviously extremely dangerous and stupid, is it illegal? Yes it is, because pedestrians are specifically restricted from motorways. Go on one on foot and you will be arrested. They might claim they have a right to protest, or even to stand and silently pray, but they cannot do it there. It’s restricted. So are the 150 meter zones around designated advice centres.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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georgenorman 01 May 24 2.50pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Firstly, they wouldn’t because none of my properties have gas connected. Secondly, if there was gas, they would call me because they all know and trust me so if a service was overdue they know it would swiftly be attended to. Thirdly, as none of my rental properties are in a restricted zone the same considerations do not apply. A more relevant analogy would be a pedestrian deciding to sit in the middle of a motorway. Something that nutters like extinction rebellion might just try. Whilst obviously extremely dangerous and stupid, is it illegal? Yes it is, because pedestrians are specifically restricted from motorways. Go on one on foot and you will be arrested. They might claim they have a right to protest, or even to stand and silently pray, but they cannot do it there. It’s restricted. So are the 150 meter zones around designated advice centres. It is irrelevant whether you have a gas supply or not, as you said, it is about perception. If the tenant thinks that you would not have gas appliances serviced if they were installed and they wanted to turn them on, but would be too fearful to, then you could be arrested as, in your words, they would be “fearful of doing something you wish to do.” !
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 May 24 6.33pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
It is irrelevant whether you have a gas supply or not, as you said, it is about perception. If the tenant thinks that you would not have gas appliances serviced if they were installed and they wanted to turn them on, but would be too fearful to, then you could be arrested as, in your words, they would be “fearful of doing something you wish to do.” ! Why on earth would a rental property without gas connected have any gas appliances in it, let alone ones that need servicing? There are some weird concepts postulated in these threads but this one takes some beating. Entirely hypothetically, on the very rare occasions when a gas supply to a tenanted property is disconnected the appliances are either removed or the gas capped off. Any tenant would be told that when they first signed a tenancy agreement, which in my case is with an agent who would ensure it was in writing. It hasn’t happened because there is neither gas nor gas appliances in my properties. The analogy is ridiculous and has no bearing whatsoever on the activities of a pro-life activist pulling publicity stunts whilst hiding behind excuses.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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georgenorman 01 May 24 7.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
Why on earth would a rental property without gas connected have any gas appliances in it, let alone ones that need servicing? There are some weird concepts postulated in these threads but this one takes some beating. Entirely hypothetically, on the very rare occasions when a gas supply to a tenanted property is disconnected the appliances are either removed or the gas capped off. Any tenant would be told that when they first signed a tenancy agreement, which in my case is with an agent who would ensure it was in writing. It hasn’t happened because there is neither gas nor gas appliances in my properties. The analogy is ridiculous and has no bearing whatsoever on the activities of a pro-life activist pulling publicity stunts whilst hiding behind excuses. As you have said, it is entirely irrelevant what you think, or whether the gas appliances exist. The only measure is if someone is in fear of doing something because of what they perceive to be your actions, then you are due for arrest!
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 May 24 7.30pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
As you have said, it is entirely irrelevant what you think, or whether the gas appliances exist. The only measure is if someone is in fear of doing something because of what they perceive to be your actions, then you are due for arrest! As I patiently pointed out several posts ago it isn’t up to any individual expressing concerns. It’s up to the police to determine if an offence has occurred. They are the ones responsible for ensuring the laws are enforced. So in the ridiculous example above it is impossible to imagine the police getting involved for they would quickly recognise the true situation. Anybody making stupid complaints would probably be arrested themselves and charged with wasting police time. Just as this silliness is a waste of time. When the pro-life activist pulled her publicity stunt nobody but the police were involved in dealing with her. There an order had been broken so action was inevitable.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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georgenorman 01 May 24 7.46pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
As I patiently pointed out several posts ago it isn’t up to any individual expressing concerns. It’s up to the police to determine if an offence has occurred. They are the ones responsible for ensuring the laws are enforced. So in the ridiculous example above it is impossible to imagine the police getting involved for they would quickly recognise the true situation. Anybody making stupid complaints would probably be arrested themselves and charged with wasting police time. Just as this silliness is a waste of time. When the pro-life activist pulled her publicity stunt nobody but the police were involved in dealing with her. There an order had been broken so action was inevitable. Ridiculous example?! If the police consider someone standing silently in a public street that they had every right to stand in was committing an offence, then they are quite capable of considering a landlord who terrifies his tenants with the prospect of faulty gas fires being fitted as guilty! Though of course it is the courts that actually determine guilt and of course they threw out the case against the person you dismiss as 'pro-life' - are you anti-life? I'm not so sure they throw out too many cases against rogue landlords though.
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Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 01 May 24 8.21pm | |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
Ridiculous example?! If the police consider someone standing silently in a public street that they had every right to stand in was committing an offence, then they are quite capable of considering a landlord who terrifies his tenants with the prospect of faulty gas fires being fitted as guilty! Though of course it is the courts that actually determine guilt and of course they threw out the case against the person you dismiss as 'pro-life' - are you anti-life? I'm not so sure they throw out too many cases against rogue landlords though. For the umpteenth time she wasn’t just standing silently in a public street. She was deliberately standing somewhere which was subject to a restriction order, accompanied by others ready to video the inevitable consequences. The offence wasn’t standing silently. It was where she was, and what she was doing. Which was a lot more than standing silently! In the ridiculous example the landlord you hypothesise about has already explained to their tenant what the situation is and has received their confirmation of it in writing. Any tenant complaining of being terrified in those circumstances would not need to call the police, but if they did the police would likely suggest they visit their doctor for a mental health assessment. I am not what some describe as “pro-life”! Which I prefer to describe as anti-choice. It doesn’t though matter what either of us believe. Abortion is legally available in the UK and those who seek advice have a legal right to do so without fear of being intimidated. The police, and the courts, have got themselves into a pickle over this because the way the law is drafted causes confusion. This has resulted in the Government carrying out a consultation exercise which hopefully will result in clarication. Unsurprisingly the ones getting excited about it are all anti-choice activists themselves, most of them religiously inspired. I have no time for such reasoning.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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georgenorman 01 May 24 8.53pm | |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
For the umpteenth time she wasn’t just standing silently in a public street. She was deliberately standing somewhere which was subject to a restriction order, accompanied by others ready to video the inevitable consequences. The offence wasn’t standing silently. It was where she was, and what she was doing. Which was a lot more than standing silently! In the ridiculous example the landlord you hypothesise about has already explained to their tenant what the situation is and has received their confirmation of it in writing. Any tenant complaining of being terrified in those circumstances would not need to call the police, but if they did the police would likely suggest they visit their doctor for a mental health assessment. I am not what some describe as “pro-life”! Which I prefer to describe as anti-choice. It doesn’t though matter what either of us believe. Abortion is legally available in the UK and those who seek advice have a legal right to do so without fear of being intimidated. The police, and the courts, have got themselves into a pickle over this because the way the law is drafted causes confusion. This has resulted in the Government carrying out a consultation exercise which hopefully will result in clarication. Unsurprisingly the ones getting excited about it are all anti-choice activists themselves, most of them religiously inspired. I have no time for such reasoning. She was standing silently in a public street. She was not prohibited from being in the area. As for the gas appliances, it is you who said that it is irrelevant what the circumstances are,all that matters is the perception of the “victim “. I know you support the termination of nascent life. Those that don’t, have a right to voice their opposition. The police have got themselves “in a pickle “ because of their authoritarian interpretation of the law. The courts are not in a pickle - they cleared the defendants. Religious people are fully entitled to have views on social issues.
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