It's down to each member state. This is all fine for successful, wealthy artists that have the resources to pay for and sort the paperwork to tour in multiple countries over a summer. For the majority, it's not feasible.

Again, I return to my point that this wasn't what was promised. There were supposed to be "no downsides", no border checks, no negatives. Just wait until the biometric checks come in (which we chose when we decided to end freedom of movement and become a third country), and see how fun they'll be.

It was my dream to play for Palace and to make my debut. I've always played for the club so if I'm playing here, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

- John Bostock (Nov 2007)

Politicians of all shades will promise the earth and then fail to deliver, has been ever thus.

Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

Again this is because the EU are being an ass about it.

I have no problem with the EU strengthening it's borders we should do the same. However there is nothing preventing the EU from agreeing a deal with the UK where UK passport holders would be treated the same as EU citizens.

I believe the UK government asked for this and was turned down, meanwhile EU citizens coming to the UK are processed in the same way as UK citizens and also allowed to stay for 6 months not 90 days like the EU.

One of these days a Rejoiner is actually going to criticise the EU instead of blaming the UK, one of these days..

Edited by Badger11 (06 Sep 2023 8.02am)

One more point

You have to understand the British institutional position is to change as little as possible in terms of our relationship with the EU because it is hell-bent on getting us back into it. Hence we are still in the ECHR, why we still allow a slew of EU goods into the UK with little or no checks, and a range of other measures which mean very little has changed.

Where as the EU, although it is patchy (for example during my trips to Croatia then the immigration checks are exactly the same outside of getting a stamp in the passport which I actually like - Something about the noise of the 'stamp' is like a starting gun for the fun and larks) are effectively 'punishing' the average UK citizen for having the audacity to reject it.

The British Establishment are in full cahoots with the EU over this and genuinely see Brexit as a blip, rather the the long-term position.

Almost impatient now for this farce of a supposed 'Government' (has a term ever meant so little in British history?) to be slaughtered in an election and Labour to then wield the knife to the back moment that is coming.

Not getting any younger so if I am to be out rioting and attempting to violently overthrow the regime, I want to be able to do so without having to worry about a Zimmer frame slowing me down. Because it is going to come down to that. Absolutely convinced.

Edited by Matov (06 Sep 2023 8.28am)

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.

That’s an interesting and well researched piece which points up how daft we were to swallow the leavers bs in the first place. Too late now. We shot ourselves in both feet so must hobble on until we can find a wheelchair.

I have though believed for a while that the last scenario in that piece is the most probable outcome. One that swerves actually rejoining but provides some kind of association and access to the free market. No Euro, Schengen or free movement but acceptance of standards, which would be started by the next government and the EU renegotiating the “deal” in order to overcome the difficulties it has created.

For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally.

I suspect it will be foisted upon us via some kind of 'associate' membership. Gets us back into the single-market and customs union with an element of political control whilst maintaining an illusion of still being seperate.

I did think they would need another referendum but starting to suspect they might swerve that. Issue would be the legitimacy of it, given what I think would be a mass boycott campaign from the likes of Farage and so on.

So yes, you would potentially get a massive 'Rejoin' majority in terms of a percentage but on a vastly reduced turnout. To give any kind of second vote on this some credibility the rejoin option would have to poll more actual votes than Leave did in 2016 and I just cannot see that happening given the backlash against the entire idea of holding the vote again in the first place. Plus it would give lunatics like me something to rally around, to shout and scream about.

Far better to get a Labour majority in Parliament to effectively take us back in without having to stress test that in an exercise in genuine proportional representation. The Establishment made that mistake back in 2016 and are not going to do that again.

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell.