Kit Malthouse -wheres Boris?

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Kit Malthouse -wheres Boris?

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jeeagles 07 Oct 21 12.35pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Intel says Brexit means it is no longer considering the UK as the site to build a major new chip factory as part of its bn (£70bn) global expansion plans. Pat Gelsinger, the chief executive of the world’s largest maker of semiconductors, said they were now only considering European Union member states to host a new European site. Just to help with your brexit optimism. Mostly agreeing with Cryst. There is an element of overselling the issue. Where these factories ever likely to have been built in Britian. Our land costs a fortune, our labour is expensive, and the Channel provides a geographical barrier to European export. Remain would have been better for me purely due the the increased certainty. I doubt a factory would deliver that much to the UK economy. Most of the money would go to the owner of the company with some construction and manufacturing jobs for the UK work force. The design would be done in America, the profits would go to the USA, we'd get mostly a number of lower skilled jobs and end up with a town dependent on a monopoly employer. Might be a bit of a rose tinted view. I'd generally check how recent decisions have effected my personal circumstance. Brexit's lead to a drop in demand for housing, which isn't great for me, but good for the country. It's also lead to a drop in candidates for technical roles, which has been good for me.
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jeeagles

07 Oct 21 12.35pm

Originally posted by steeleye20
Intel says Brexit means it is no longer considering the UK as the site to build a major new chip factory as part of its bn (£70bn) global expansion plans.

Pat Gelsinger, the chief executive of the world’s largest maker of semiconductors, said they were now only considering European Union member states to host a new European site.

Just to help with your brexit optimism.

Mostly agreeing with Cryst. There is an element of overselling the issue.

Where these factories ever likely to have been built in Britian. Our land costs a fortune, our labour is expensive, and the Channel provides a geographical barrier to European export.

Remain would have been better for me purely due the the increased certainty. I doubt a factory would deliver that much to the UK economy. Most of the money would go to the owner of the company with some construction and manufacturing jobs for the UK work force. The design would be done in America, the profits would go to the USA, we'd get mostly a number of lower skilled jobs and end up with a town dependent on a monopoly employer.

Might be a bit of a rose tinted view.

I'd generally check how recent decisions have effected my personal circumstance. Brexit's lead to a drop in demand for housing, which isn't great for me, but good for the country. It's also lead to a drop in candidates for technical roles, which has been good for me.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 07 Oct 21 12.38pm
Originally posted by cryrst You leftys are truly one eyed. I think I've made my points and mocking is your only comeback. I've never said everything hmg have done is correct but all you Captain hindsight with your red books don't read you just assume. I have been at the bottom and know what it's like to need help,to need money,to need a roof. At the same time many in this position are liars. Covid was an unknown as well as brexit. Two very scary concepts to be alive with. C9vid is now waning in the UK hopefully and seems to be going away slowly. Whatever was done during it helped many millions of people through some rough times.if that has eluded you then clearly your tunnel is very long and very lonely. Hmg has clearly cocked up in some of its actions but in others it has prevailed and should be respected. Brexut was never going to easy but more wanted to go with it than nit. If apathy created this then aye your irk should be aimed at those people. Hell I bet some on here didn't even vote. Well the egg is clearly on your faces now. I voted remain and would not have been bothered to remain but we are where we are and pulling in different direction only stretches out the time to make it work. It's not being reversed yet, and I say yet because going back in has never been fully discarded,even by staunch brexiteers. Hard times need hard rules and measures, we are going through that now and it would be easier as one. The irony of you calling people one-eyed is honestly hilarious. We performed worst than nearly any other country when it came to excess deaths during Covid, and you want to credit them for how they handled it - thousands of people died who didn't need to, and you want to pat them on the back? It's a bloody insult. And before you tell me it was an unknown, it was an unknown world over and we were amongst the worst - the argument doesn't make any bit of sense. "Brexit was never going to be easy" is now the defence of the same people who told us there was an 'oven-ready deal' and dismissed any and all concerns as 'Project Fear' I try to avoid the "people like you are to blame.." type chats that many on here roll out, but the people who give this government a free pass regardless of how many times they fail are the ones I really struggle to empathise with at the moment - how can you be happy with this!?
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 07 Oct 21 12.38pm

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Originally posted by cryrst

You leftys are truly one eyed.
I think I've made my points and mocking is your only comeback.
I've never said everything hmg have done is correct but all you Captain hindsight with your red books don't read you just assume.
I have been at the bottom and know what it's like to need help,to need money,to need a roof. At the same time many in this position are liars. Covid was an unknown as well as brexit.
Two very scary concepts to be alive with. C9vid is now waning in the UK hopefully and seems to be going away slowly. Whatever was done during it helped many millions of people through some rough times.if that has eluded you then clearly your tunnel is very long and very lonely. Hmg has clearly cocked up in some of its actions but in others it has prevailed and should be respected. Brexut was never going to easy but more wanted to go with it than nit. If apathy created this then aye your irk should be aimed at those people. Hell I bet some on here didn't even vote. Well the egg is clearly on your faces now. I voted remain and would not have been bothered to remain but we are where we are and pulling in different direction only stretches out the time to make it work. It's not being reversed yet, and I say yet because going back in has never been fully discarded,even by staunch brexiteers. Hard times need hard rules and measures, we are going through that now and it would be easier as one.

The irony of you calling people one-eyed is honestly hilarious.

We performed worst than nearly any other country when it came to excess deaths during Covid, and you want to credit them for how they handled it - thousands of people died who didn't need to, and you want to pat them on the back? It's a bloody insult.

And before you tell me it was an unknown, it was an unknown world over and we were amongst the worst - the argument doesn't make any bit of sense.

"Brexit was never going to be easy" is now the defence of the same people who told us there was an 'oven-ready deal' and dismissed any and all concerns as 'Project Fear'

I try to avoid the "people like you are to blame.." type chats that many on here roll out, but the people who give this government a free pass regardless of how many times they fail are the ones I really struggle to empathise with at the moment - how can you be happy with this!?

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Stirlingsays 07 Oct 21 1.26pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow The irony of you calling people one-eyed is honestly hilarious. We performed worst than nearly any other country when it came to excess deaths during Covid, and you want to credit them for how they handled it - thousands of people died who didn't need to, and you want to pat them on the back? It's a bloody insult. And before you tell me it was an unknown, it was an unknown world over and we were amongst the worst - the argument doesn't make any bit of sense. "Brexit was never going to be easy" is now the defence of the same people who told us there was an 'oven-ready deal' and dismissed any and all concerns as 'Project Fear' I try to avoid the "people like you are to blame.." type chats that many on here roll out, but the people who give this government a free pass regardless of how many times they fail are the ones I really struggle to empathise with at the moment - how can you be happy with this!? I think it's reasonable to recognise that deaths from covid are going to be related to population density, which puts us pretty high....and cultural compliance and practices where we are probably middling...on and death recording methods but lets not get into that. You seem to put safety far above freedom, which is your choice and how most governments treated this....indeed, it seems to be a competition as to just how paranoid versus risk a country should be. However I think a fair assessment of any government has to take the above first paragraph factors into account. Brexit is of course a different ballgame. I remember before Brexit and indeed way before the referendum being criticised on the forum for banging on about the EU. I remember being called 'swivel eyed' and zealot and so on. Now when it comes to discussions about Brexit I often find the boot is on the other foot. Maybe I should make the argument that Brexit is now in the rear view mirror and we should just all get on with it without constantly fighting the battles of the past. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2021 1.29pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Oct 21 1.26pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

The irony of you calling people one-eyed is honestly hilarious.

And before you tell me it was an unknown, it was an unknown world over and we were amongst the worst - the argument doesn't make any bit of sense.

"Brexit was never going to be easy" is now the defence of the same people who told us there was an 'oven-ready deal' and dismissed any and all concerns as 'Project Fear'

I think it's reasonable to recognise that deaths from covid are going to be related to population density, which puts us pretty high....and cultural compliance and practices where we are probably middling...on and death recording methods but lets not get into that.

You seem to put safety far above freedom, which is your choice and how most governments treated this....indeed, it seems to be a competition as to just how paranoid versus risk a country should be.

However I think a fair assessment of any government has to take the above first paragraph factors into account.

Brexit is of course a different ballgame.

I remember before Brexit and indeed way before the referendum being criticised on the forum for banging on about the EU. I remember being called 'swivel eyed' and zealot and so on. Now when it comes to discussions about Brexit I often find the boot is on the other foot. Maybe I should make the argument that Brexit is now in the rear view mirror and we should just all get on with it without constantly fighting the battles of the past.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2021 1.29pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 07 Oct 21 2.12pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays I think it's reasonable to recognise that deaths from covid are going to be related to population density, which puts us pretty high....and cultural compliance and practices where we are probably middling...on and death recording methods but lets not get into that. You seem to put safety far above freedom, which is your choice and how most governments treated this....indeed, it seems to be a competition as to just how paranoid versus risk a country should be. However I think a fair assessment of any government has to take the above first paragraph factors into account. Brexit is of course a different ballgame. I remember before Brexit and indeed way before the referendum being criticised on the forum for banging on about the EU. I remember being called 'swivel eyed' and zealot and so on. Now when it comes to discussions about Brexit I often find the boot is on the other foot. Maybe I should make the argument that Brexit is now in the rear view mirror and we should just all get on with it without constantly fighting the battles of the past. Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2021 1.29pm) Of course there are other factors in death rates, but it’s disingenuous to pretend we weren’t one of the worst performing, even with those considered. The semantics raised around these points are nothing but attempts to muddy the water, in my opinion. Nothing I’ve said suggests I ‘seem to put safety above freedom’ although it is a clever way of framing my argument. I think ‘getting on with it’ and accepting we were repeatedly lied to are very separate things - there is absolutely nothing I can do in my personal life to assist the country in ‘getting on with it’ so why would I sit here and pretend it’s going well and we weren’t all lied to? Its another attempt to absolve this useless government of anything resembling accountability or scrutiny
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 07 Oct 21 2.12pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

You seem to put safety far above freedom, which is your choice and how most governments treated this....indeed, it seems to be a competition as to just how paranoid versus risk a country should be.

However I think a fair assessment of any government has to take the above first paragraph factors into account.

Brexit is of course a different ballgame.

Edited by Stirlingsays (07 Oct 2021 1.29pm)

Of course there are other factors in death rates, but it’s disingenuous to pretend we weren’t one of the worst performing, even with those considered. The semantics raised around these points are nothing but attempts to muddy the water, in my opinion.

Nothing I’ve said suggests I ‘seem to put safety above freedom’ although it is a clever way of framing my argument.

I think ‘getting on with it’ and accepting we were repeatedly lied to are very separate things - there is absolutely nothing I can do in my personal life to assist the country in ‘getting on with it’ so why would I sit here and pretend it’s going well and we weren’t all lied to? Its another attempt to absolve this useless government of anything resembling accountability or scrutiny

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Stirlingsays 07 Oct 21 2.30pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow Of course there are other factors in death rates, but it’s disingenuous to pretend we weren’t one of the worst performing, even with those considered. The semantics raised around these points are nothing but attempts to muddy the water, in my opinion. Nothing I’ve said suggests I ‘seem to put safety above freedom’ although it is a clever way of framing my argument. I think ‘getting on with it’ and accepting we were repeatedly lied to are very separate things - there is absolutely nothing I can do in my personal life to assist the country in ‘getting on with it’ so why would I sit here and pretend it’s going well and we weren’t all lied to? Its another attempt to absolve this useless government of anything resembling accountability or scrutiny Interesting views in response. I gave what I thought were logical reasons while this country would be quite high on the death count regardless of governmental responses but I suppose if you feel the covid points are semantics and disingenuous 'muddying of the waters' then while disagreeing I suppose I'm not going to convince you otherwise....and as we all know you are entitled to those views. While I'm obviously pro Brexit I would agree with you that governments are there to be scrutinized and should be and that's from whatever political perspective you come from. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Oct 21 2.30pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Nothing I’ve said suggests I ‘seem to put safety above freedom’ although it is a clever way of framing my argument.

Interesting views in response.

I gave what I thought were logical reasons while this country would be quite high on the death count regardless of governmental responses but I suppose if you feel the covid points are semantics and disingenuous 'muddying of the waters' then while disagreeing I suppose I'm not going to convince you otherwise....and as we all know you are entitled to those views.

While I'm obviously pro Brexit I would agree with you that governments are there to be scrutinized and should be and that's from whatever political perspective you come from.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 07 Oct 21 2.35pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Interesting views in response. I gave what I thought were logical reasons while this country would be quite high on the death count regardless of governmental responses but I suppose if you feel the covid points are semantics and disingenuous 'muddying of the waters' then while disagreeing I suppose I'm not going to convince you otherwise....and as we all know you are entitled to those views. While I'm obviously pro Brexit I would agree with you that governments are there to be scrutinized and should be and that's from whatever political perspective you come from. To try and clarify my point on death rates; it's one of those measures where you're never going to have a perfect comparable because there are so many varying factors to consider (many of which you referenced) and no two countries will ever be identical in all of them. In that case, all you can look to are similar cases, whilst acknowledging some difference is to be expected, and try and decide if that difference is justifiable. In this case, I would argue it's absolutely not.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 07 Oct 21 2.35pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Interesting views in response.

While I'm obviously pro Brexit I would agree with you that governments are there to be scrutinized and should be and that's from whatever political perspective you come from.

To try and clarify my point on death rates; it's one of those measures where you're never going to have a perfect comparable because there are so many varying factors to consider (many of which you referenced) and no two countries will ever be identical in all of them. In that case, all you can look to are similar cases, whilst acknowledging some difference is to be expected, and try and decide if that difference is justifiable.

In this case, I would argue it's absolutely not.

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 07 Oct 21 2.36pm
Originally posted by steeleye20 Intel says Brexit means it is no longer considering the UK as the site to build a major new chip factory as part of its bn (£70bn) global expansion plans. Pat Gelsinger, the chief executive of the world’s largest maker of semiconductors, said they were now only considering European Union member states to host a new European site. Just to help with your brexit optimism. Yeah, we got no fish and no chips! boom boom......
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 07 Oct 21 2.36pm

Originally posted by steeleye20

Intel says Brexit means it is no longer considering the UK as the site to build a major new chip factory as part of its bn (£70bn) global expansion plans.

Pat Gelsinger, the chief executive of the world’s largest maker of semiconductors, said they were now only considering European Union member states to host a new European site.

Just to help with your brexit optimism.

Yeah, we got no fish and no chips! boom boom......

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croydon proud Any european country i fancy! 07 Oct 21 2.48pm
Originally posted by cryrst Do you really care what others think about the UK. I'm sure the eu don't care what we think of them. I don"t give a flying fcuk mate, but it will hinder other countries doing trade deals and investing in gb, dodgy lying untrustworthy government is going to mean take the investment, and jobs, elsewhere! That"s our childrens future jobs mate! They already are going to be living in tent cities in the future, on leaseholders land, so a nice 2 berth tent might be just under the£ 100k mark! The site owners call them glamping apartments so totally acceptable, but we might as well let them work mate, don"t ruin all the foreign investment!
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croydon proud

Any european country i fancy! 07 Oct 21 2.48pm

Originally posted by cryrst

Do you really care what others think about the UK. I'm sure the eu don't care what we think of them.

I don"t give a flying fcuk mate, but it will hinder other countries doing trade deals and investing in gb, dodgy lying untrustworthy government is going to mean take the investment, and jobs, elsewhere! That"s our childrens future jobs mate! They already are going to be living in tent cities in the future, on leaseholders land, so a nice 2 berth tent might be just under the£ 100k mark! The site owners call them glamping apartments so totally acceptable, but we might as well let them work mate, don"t ruin all the foreign investment!

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Stirlingsays 07 Oct 21 2.50pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow To try and clarify my point on death rates; it's one of those measures where you're never going to have a perfect comparable because there are so many varying factors to consider (many of which you referenced) and no two countries will ever be identical in all of them. In that case, all you can look to are similar cases, whilst acknowledging some difference is to be expected, and try and decide if that difference is justifiable. In this case, I would argue it's absolutely not. Yep, good points. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

07 Oct 21 2.50pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

In this case, I would argue it's absolutely not.

Yep, good points.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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cryrst The garden of England 07 Oct 21 5.20pm
Originally posted by croydon proud I don"t give a flying fcuk mate, but it will hinder other countries doing trade deals and investing in gb, dodgy lying untrustworthy government is going to mean take the investment, and jobs, elsewhere! That"s our childrens future jobs mate! They already are going to be living in tent cities in the future, on leaseholders land, so a nice 2 berth tent might be just under the£ 100k mark! The site owners call them glamping apartments so totally acceptable, but we might as well let them work mate, don"t ruin all the foreign investment! My parents parents worked,my parents worked,I worked, my kids all work. Do you see something there. We all had self respect. Forget hmg being useless. There will always be work. Wanting to do it is actually nothing to do with hmg. 1 million vacancies and still no lefty will actually have the balls to say welfare takers are capable of doing some of those jobs. When there are no jobs I'm in your camp. Until then I beleive you have to make your life not get it given on a plate. Property will go up so get a longer mortgage, owning is a marathon not a sprint I'm afraid.
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cryrst

The garden of England 07 Oct 21 5.20pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

My parents parents worked,my parents worked,I worked, my kids all work. Do you see something there. We all had self respect.
Forget hmg being useless. There will always be work. Wanting to do it is actually nothing to do with hmg. 1 million vacancies and still no lefty will actually have the balls to say welfare takers are capable of doing some of those jobs. When there are no jobs I'm in your camp. Until then I beleive you have to make your life not get it given on a plate. Property will go up so get a longer mortgage, owning is a marathon not a sprint I'm afraid.

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kuge Peckham 07 Oct 21 5.27pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays Interesting views in response. I gave what I thought were logical reasons while this country would be quite high on the death count regardless of governmental responses but I suppose if you feel the covid points are semantics and disingenuous 'muddying of the waters' then while disagreeing I suppose I'm not going to convince you otherwise....and as we all know you are entitled to those views. While I'm obviously pro Brexit I would agree with you that governments are there to be scrutinized and should be and that's from whatever political perspective you come from. The population density argument as regards deaths is not supported by the data. There are many countries with a higher density of population with far lower numbers of fatalities. [Link] This chart shows us that the UK as of October 6, 2021, has a death rate of 2,018.76 per million and a population density of 272.9 people per Km2. Compared to: Bangladesh with just 166.17 deaths per million and a population density of 1265.04 people per Km2. China with just 3.21 deaths per million and a population density of 147.67 people per Km2. Nigeria with just 3.1 deaths per million and a population density of 209.58 people per Km2. South Korea with just 166.17 deaths per million and a population density of 527.97 people per Km2. The UK looks to have performed very badly. That is even before we consider the levels of health care available in these different countries. Looking at a comparable nation in Europe Germany’s 1120.74 deaths per million and a population density of 237.02 people per Km2 Again makes the UK look poor with nearly twice the deaths.
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kuge

Peckham 07 Oct 21 5.27pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

Interesting views in response.

While I'm obviously pro Brexit I would agree with you that governments are there to be scrutinized and should be and that's from whatever political perspective you come from.

The population density argument as regards deaths is not supported by the data. There are many countries with a higher density of population with far lower numbers of fatalities.
[Link]

This chart shows us that the UK as of October 6, 2021, has a death rate of 2,018.76 per million and a population density of 272.9 people per Km2.

Compared to:
Bangladesh with just 166.17 deaths per million and a population density of 1265.04 people per Km2.
China with just 3.21 deaths per million and a population density of 147.67 people per Km2.
Nigeria with just 3.1 deaths per million and a population density of 209.58 people per Km2.
South Korea with just 166.17 deaths per million and a population density of 527.97 people per Km2.

The UK looks to have performed very badly. That is even before we consider the levels of health care available in these different countries.

Looking at a comparable nation in Europe
Germany’s 1120.74 deaths per million and a population density of 237.02 people per Km2
Again makes the UK look poor with nearly twice the deaths.

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jeeagles 07 Oct 21 5.33pm
Originally posted by croydon proud I don"t give a flying fcuk mate, but it will hinder other countries doing trade deals and investing in gb, dodgy lying untrustworthy government is going to mean take the investment, and jobs, elsewhere! That"s our childrens future jobs mate! They already are going to be living in tent cities in the future, on leaseholders land, so a nice 2 berth tent might be just under the£ 100k mark! The site owners call them glamping apartments so totally acceptable, but we might as well let them work mate, don"t ruin all the foreign investment! I did some work with the department for international trade a few weeks ago. Possibly the only good thing May did. It’s pretty much a post box for tenders from abroad, but they do seem to be more aggressive chasing work from EU countries than they previously did. The people that work for them all seem to be 12 year old Oxbridge graduates. Still very smart and spend their time working out how to make the world work best for them, rather than complaining that government don’t do things the way they want.
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jeeagles

07 Oct 21 5.33pm

Originally posted by croydon proud

I did some work with the department for international trade a few weeks ago. Possibly the only good thing May did. It’s pretty much a post box for tenders from abroad, but they do seem to be more aggressive chasing work from EU countries than they previously did.

The people that work for them all seem to be 12 year old Oxbridge graduates. Still very smart and spend their time working out how to make the world work best for them, rather than complaining that government don’t do things the way they want.

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