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Afghanistan and use of media warfare
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 Ouzo Dan  Behind you 16 Aug 21 8.37pm |
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Originally posted by steeleye20
The reason we are where we are, defeated, is the behaviour of the USA President Biden and his predecessor, and of the flawed american system of investing unlimited power in one individual. There was never any need for withdrawal from Afghanistan. Only a short while ago the taliban were confined to rural areas in the south, the country was stable and peaceful with the occasional outrage you get anywhere, including here. The lot of women and society was enhanced, no acts of terrorism since 2001 from Afghan soil. Now we can only guess. Biden and Trump saw 'saving americans tax dollars' and headline-grabbing 'bringing the boys back home', well they won't be getting either. The did not consider the welfare of the people of Afghanistan at all. I feel revolted by them.
Its difficult to pin this on Trump, he was already actively reducing military numbers in Afghanistan with little to no increase in grief from the Taliban. What he would have done is impossible to say and tbh pointless now but I imagine it would have been along the same lines he was already doing which was reducing numbers over time. This falls on Biden & his weak as f*** progressive administration.
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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Matov  16 Aug 21 8.44pm |
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Lets be honest, it all falls on our entire modern political class. Bought and paid for, with very, very few notable exceptions, by Saudi petrodollars, Israeli biased media organizations and the Corporations, often in an unholy combination of all three. We can all take the side of our particular political flavour but what is playing out tonight at Kabul Airport, and I suspect it is going to get far messier than even today's shocking events, is a testimony that we have a collection of utterly venal sociopaths running the West. And we vote for them.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 21 9.01pm |
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While I'd agree that the decision to get out has been US and hence western foreign policy for sometime now I think the far greater criticism has to be given to Biden.....because its his administration making these judgements and implementing their decisions. Firstly the incompetence is staggering. Nothing seems to have been learnt from the past. I thought teaching Saigon and military mistakes was 101 in the academies. However, the Democrats have their chosen people making these decisions and implementations.....What is happening is unforgivable and it proves that whoever is making these decisions has been over promoted. But secondly because he broke the deal Trump had made with the Taliban and moved the date back. It seems that it was purely based upon the idea that leaving would then be seen to be his accomplishment rather than Trump's. Incredible really that foreign policy should be that childish.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Spiderman Horsham 16 Aug 21 9.02pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
While I'd agree that the decision to get out has been US and hence western foreign policy for sometime now I think the far greater criticism has to be given to Biden.....because its his administration making these judgements and implementing their decisions. Firstly the incompetence is staggering. Nothing seems to have been learnt from the past. I thought teaching Saigon and military mistakes was 101 in the academies. However, the Democrats have their chosen people making these decisions and implementations.....What is happening is unforgivable and it proves that whoever is making these decisions has been over promoted. But secondly because he broke the deal Trump had made with the Taliban and moved the date back. It seems that it was purely based upon the idea that leaving would then be seen to be his accomplishment rather than Trump's. Incredible really that foreign policy should be that childish. Still at least he stayed on holiday at Camp David whilst Kabul fell
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 21 9.03pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Lets be honest, it all falls on our entire modern political class. Bought and paid for, with very, very few notable exceptions, by Saudi petrodollars, Israeli biased media organizations and the Corporations, often in an unholy combination of all three. We can all take the side of our particular political flavour but what is playing out tonight at Kabul Airport, and I suspect it is going to get far messier than even today's shocking events, is a testimony that we have a collection of utterly venal sociopaths running the West. And we vote for them. All true mate. Unless we don't vote it's all just a variation upon the same bosses......that's by design.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Spiderman Horsham 16 Aug 21 9.10pm |
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Just watching Biden’s speech. The way he is criticising the Afghan army is a f***ing disgrace, claiming they are not prepared to fight for their own country! They were, until being hung out to dry ( probably wrong expression). Everyone s fault except his Edited by Spiderman (16 Aug 2021 9.10pm)
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| steeleye20 Croydon 16 Aug 21 9.23pm |
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Originally posted by Spiderman
Just watching Biden’s speech. The way he is criticising the Afghan army is a f***ing disgrace, claiming they are not prepared to fight for their own country! They were, until being hung out to dry ( probably wrong expression). Everyone s fault except his Edited by Spiderman (16 Aug 2021 9.10pm) Seconded. I have a bad feeling he will get away with it. Notice how he always talks about money, never the Afghan people.
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| Ouzo Dan Behind you 16 Aug 21 9.31pm |
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I think he is finished,The Democrats will sacrifice him like an Afghan goat. Step forward Kamala Harris Edited by Ouzo Dan (16 Aug 2021 9.37pm)
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 21 9.37pm |
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I think the speech is loaded with excuses and off loading blame for decision branches that weren't exactly unforeseeable..like the Afghans weren't going to fight the Taliban in large numbers when they knew the Americans were off....as that's like hanging yourself. I can't get over losing that equipment to a sworn enemy.....that's unforgiveable military incompetence....but that shouldn't really be a decision that people like Biden makes...surely that's the generals. I will say I like Biden's commitment that he will be ruthless with the Taliban if they attack their personnel as they go. I think that is essential, he and us and whoever has our people there has to be ready to use overwhelming force. What an embarrassing mess.....and to see how the press are reporting it compared to what they would do to Trump is a lesson is how fecked up the fourth estate is. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2021 9.39pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Ouzo Dan Behind you 16 Aug 21 9.39pm |
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There are already skirmishes between allied forces and the Taliban, Biden is talking complete nonsense.
The mountains are calling & I must go. |
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| Stirlingsays 16 Aug 21 9.41pm |
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Originally posted by Ouzo Dan
There are already skirmishes between allied forces and the Taliban, Biden is talking complete nonsense. If he's lying about what's possible to make them look better.....he needs to be taken to the cleaners. And they have to find someone sensible and competent.....Harris is a joke....she isn't even liked and wasn't voted for in her own party. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 Aug 2021 9.42pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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croydon proud  Any european country i fancy! 16 Aug 21 9.41pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Lets be honest, it all falls on our entire modern political class. Bought and paid for, with very, very few notable exceptions, by Saudi petrodollars, Israeli biased media organizations and the Corporations, often in an unholy combination of all three. We can all take the side of our particular political flavour but what is playing out tonight at Kabul Airport, and I suspect it is going to get far messier than even today's shocking events, is a testimony that we have a collection of utterly venal sociopaths running the West. And we vote for them. Best comment on the thread Matov.I wasn"t going to bother posting but have put tinny on, first was that Trump agreed all this last year in Dohar, and has criticised Biden for delaying the withdrawal, perhaps as Stirling says-for him to get the credit. But it was Trumps baby. Today i saw our own foreign secretary, Domonic Raab, on tv saying NOBODY could see this coming(the speed of the Taliban). I think he was defending his own position and the pm, both are in serious trouble as this is the worst crisis on foreign policy since suez. Taking his words as gospel, as the majority voted for him , thus trust him, Nobody could perhaps, just perhaps, include the president of the United States america(sic), and indeed his predesessor !
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