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2020 US Presidential Election. (LOCKED)
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 Wisbech Eagle  Truro Cornwall 10 Mar 20 6.41pm |
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What is so awful about trying to move the USA towards an efficient universal health system? What is so awful about wanting to introduce strong controls over automatic weapons? What is so awful about wanting to protect the environment? What is so awful about seeking to cooperate with other countries rather than seeking to confront them? What is so awful about a liberal social democracy? A these principals seem embedded into our own democracy what the "Dems" want seems much more likely to bring them closer to us than anything that Trump's version of Republicanism ever will.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Mar 20 6.54pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
But something really does not add up about Biden. Read some analysis about Biden which essentially breaks down to an odd electoral reality that in places that don't actually know much about Joe Biden he does well but in places were he actively campaigns he does badly. And that is the risk for him in the nationwide spot-light of a Presidential campaign. He makes gaffe after gaffe along with having some serious questions, and by people his own side, about the state of his mental health. I just struggle to see him going head-to-head with Trump. I suspect, and it is completely in the realms of a what-if and without any knowledge of how the Democrat party works, that he is nothing more than their best chance of stopping Sanders winning. That once he wins the nomination he will step down quite quickly afterwards and a new candidate selected without having to go through the primary process again. Now who that might be, I cannot speculate on but I genuinely struggle to see how Biden is the answer to Trump. In fact how he is the answer to anything. I agree with you. I personally think they should have chosen a younger more vigorous candidate but not being an American I suspect I am missing something. The important thing has to be to get rid of Trump. I just hope he, with the Dems all behind him, manage to get that done or we will all suffer the Trump bs for 4 more years of ridiculousness.
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cryrst  The garden of England 10 Mar 20 7.15pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What is so awful about trying to move the USA towards an efficient universal health system? What is so awful about wanting to introduce strong controls over automatic weapons? What is so awful about wanting to protect the environment? What is so awful about seeking to cooperate with other countries rather than seeking to confront them? What is so awful about a liberal social democracy? A these principals seem embedded into our own democracy what the "Dems" want seems much more likely to bring them closer to us than anything that Trump's version of Republicanism ever will. Trump stopped Obama care as the rich, or not 'poor' payed for the lazy and reckless. The bump stop has beened banned but in the usa the individual states can make their own rules. Pulling out of the Paris agreement was his way of protecting the usa or they would be going down the same road as us. Persecuted not enthused and rewarded to change. What countries has he confronted. Basically putting america and it's people first.
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| Matov 10 Mar 20 7.16pm |
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Wondering about that as well. Biden appears to me to be the worst possible candidate and yet seems to be flavour of the month. Oh well. We will see. Personally I want Trump to storm it but suspect there are a lot more twists and turns yet.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 10 Mar 20 10.18pm |
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Originally posted by cryrst
Trump stopped Obama care as the rich, or not 'poor' payed for the lazy and reckless. Do you seriously think the US system is better than ours? Seriously? Actually Trump hasn't "stopped" Obamacare. He has just tried to. The bump stop has beened banned but in the usa the individual states can make their own rules. A President, working with Congress, could very easily introduce legislation which would force change. Pulling out of the Paris agreement was his way of protecting the usa or they would be going down the same road as us. Persecuted not enthused and rewarded to change. It was mega stupid. The whole world needs to work together on this issue and Trump playing to his base back in the USA was beyond irresponsible. What countries has he confronted. He has confronted China, Mexico, the EU and the Nato countries. That's just for starters. He took a reckless step with Iran that may well yet have unforecastable repercussions. He was just handed a respite by Iran behaving just as stupidly by destroying the aircraft. Basically putting america and it's people first. Every leader says they put it's people first. That is their job. What that means though can vary considerably. Trump doesn't actually do it at all, despite all his bluster and tweets. He puts those who he thinks will vote for him first. Trump always puts Trump first. [
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| cryrst The garden of England 10 Mar 20 10.36pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
[ The nhs is the envy of the world so no the system isnt better. The treatment maybe,but you have to be so rich and chequebook ready with the way obama care was set up. The American system will not allow country wide changes. Gun law generally Is different state to state. My point is general in the way we are being absolutely smashed into changes that are impractical in the timescale. If it is real anyhow but it's a free thought ATM. So he should just roll over and give China everything, accept Mexico's immigrants and let iran be the bully it wants to be. I dont beleive he does things for his own votes 100%. Some small things maybe ,I give you that. Although not many political parties arnt in this mode. Leaders of certain countries a lot more and a lot more forcibly than western ones.
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sitdownstandup  11 Mar 20 2.35pm |
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There are reports that voters have had to wait for hours in line to vote. In college campuses students had to wait for up to 4 hours in some places and in Dallas some voters had to wait up to 6 hours to vote. I think it suggests that something corrupt is afoot. How can anyone in a country which supposedly prides itself on democratic values have to wait that long to vote? Procedures should be put in place many months in advance to deal with the expected turnout and if not then people will question why they weren't. This isn't the first time it's happened in America in recent years and is a pretty sad indictment of the system that operates there. Edited by sitdownstandup (11 Mar 2020 2.38pm)
Man is the most insane species. He worships an invisible God and destroys a visible Nature. Unaware that this Nature he’s destroying is this God he’s worshipping. Hubert Reeves |
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| Stirlingsays 11 Mar 20 4.10pm |
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What is so awful about trying to move the USA towards an efficient universal health system? What is so awful about wanting to introduce strong controls over automatic weapons? Essentially because there is huge resistance to both of them. Healthcare moving to a NHS type system would result in a massively reduced private system with lots of lay offs.....in the short term that would be a massive upheaval. I would only agree with this restructure if it could be done by reducing the average financial burden without reducing quality......It's yet to be seen if that is possible in the US because there are major roadblocks to an NHS system. I'm much more with the republicans in terms of the second amendment and they are very correct in not trusting the Democrats at all. While I certainly agree that a society without common gun usage is preferable the reality is that there are so many guns within the US that any major change would only benefit criminals. Besides, I would recommend that no republican gives up their guns to a government administration.....down the line they are going to need them in several different aspects. What is so awful about wanting to protect the environment? Nothing, it depends what you do. The Democrats are full of fruitcakes on the environment as they are on most things. What is so awful about seeking to cooperate with other countries rather than seeking to confront them? What is so awful about a liberal social democracy? Look around you.....there are some good aspects but many bad and degenerate ones. Nihilistic self absorbed liberals are not the best answer for societies. Most of the issues I have with the Democrats you haven't mentioned but there's enough there for you to suck on.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Matov 11 Mar 20 4.20pm |
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Absolutely convinced now that Biden is nothing more than a stalking horse designed to just scupper Sanders. Will be stood down at some stage and replaced with a celeb Democrat candidate and/or Hillary on the basis that they don't have time to run the selection process again. It would have to be a 'big' name, and not anybody who already stood for the candidacy. Because Biden is simply not up to the job.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| SavoyTruffle 11 Mar 20 5.01pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Absolutely convinced now that Biden is nothing more than a stalking horse designed to just scupper Sanders. Will be stood down at some stage and replaced with a celeb Democrat candidate and/or Hillary on the basis that they don't have time to run the selection process again. It would have to be a 'big' name, and not anybody who already stood for the candidacy. Because Biden is simply not up to the job. I think you underestimate the desire of the neoliberal dems to stop Bernie. Trump is bad to them but ultimately he will protect the crony Washington lifestyle, Bernie would not. They are willing to take a four year hit on Trump beating Biden if it means the corrupt lobbying is allowed to remain in Washington. Trump is happy to see that continue just as much as the Democratic neoliberals. Edited by SavoyTruffle (11 Mar 2020 5.02pm) Edited by SavoyTruffle (11 Mar 2020 5.14pm)
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| Matov 11 Mar 20 5.13pm |
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Originally posted by SavoyTruffle
I think you underestimate the desire of the neoliberal dems to stop Bernie. Trump is bad but ultimately he will protect the crony Washington lifestyle, Bernie would not. They are willing to take a four year hit on Trump beating Biden if it means the corrupt lobbying is allowed to remain in Washington. Trump is happy to see that continue just as much as the Democratic neoliberals. Edited by SavoyTruffle (11 Mar 2020 5.02pm) I don't necessarily disagree with much of that but I still cannot see any logic in putting Biden forward. Trump is beatable. His victory was far more marginal than their electoral college system suggests and he can be beaten. But not by Biden. I suspect that have a celebrity candidate lined up with the VP role the one that will handle the political side. Possibly Hillary. Lets see.
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - 1984 - George Orwell. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 11 Mar 20 7.26pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Absolutely convinced now that Biden is nothing more than a stalking horse designed to just scupper Sanders. Will be stood down at some stage and replaced with a celeb Democrat candidate and/or Hillary on the basis that they don't have time to run the selection process again. It would have to be a 'big' name, and not anybody who already stood for the candidacy. Because Biden is simply not up to the job. It's an interesting theory although I am not sure whether it actually works that way. Wouldn't the person with the second largest number, presumably Sanders, simply take over if the front runner had to withdraw? I hope though you are right because I worry that Trump's team will run another negative campaign as they did with Clinton, probably with more covert assistance. Trump would also flatten Biden in head to head debates. Trump is just a showman at heart. He is the Del boy of US politics who says everything for effect. In his case though he has already become a millionaire. Albeit one who is probably technically bankrupt. Getting rid of Trump is though worth whatever shenanigans have to be mounted. That prize justifies everything. Don't see it being Hillary though. Too much baggage and a history of failure. One interesting possibility though might be for Obama to run as VP. He cannot run as President again but his name on the ticket might make all the difference and draw the focus off Trump. Whether it is constitutionally permitted has not been tested so that too would make for an interesting diversion.
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