New Zealand shooting at mosques

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New Zealand shooting at mosques

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Hrolf The Ganger 15 Mar 19 4.47pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow And yet in those cases, you are the first to argue the ideology is to blame... Ideology is different from recognising a demonstrable factual reality.
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Hrolf The Ganger

15 Mar 19 4.47pm

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Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

And yet in those cases, you are the first to argue the ideology is to blame...

Ideology is different from recognising a demonstrable factual reality.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 15 Mar 19 4.53pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger Ideology is different from recognising a demonstrable factual reality. I don’t agree it’s a demonstrable factual reality, but that’s been done to death, so let’s agree to disagree there. Everyone believes their ideology is the true one.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 15 Mar 19 4.53pm

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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

Ideology is different from recognising a demonstrable factual reality.

I don’t agree it’s a demonstrable factual reality, but that’s been done to death, so let’s agree to disagree there.

Everyone believes their ideology is the true one.

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Invalid user 2019 15 Mar 19 4.56pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays As for what is likely to have angered this guy....Your opinions on what is important to him are far more likely to anger him far more than mine. If this guy listened to me, he certainly wouldn't be murdering anyone that's for sure. Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Mar 2019 4.48pm) Someone should've been looking at this NZ guy's public online activity earlier, thats's for sure. Thanks for your comments anyway. For anyone interested, again, my actual comment and views are below. Original Message A sickening act. I'm pleased I've criticised both religious extremism and racial resistance groups on here. It's all too easy online to plug into these fringe movements or to go down an us vs them road to radicalisation. This guy announced what he was going to do before posting his muddled and cliched 'white genecide' ethno state manifesto on a chan site, live streaming his heinous acts to anyone interested. It's important to see the dignity in all, not get warped ideas about who does and doesn't truly belong in their own country. The regular focus on genetic themed racial stuff that is suddenly ever present on here for instance is alienating, unhelpful and a rung on the ladder this leads nowhere pleasant. Hrolf makes a good point about how violence begets violence. Previous attacks add weight to the likelihood of attacks like this, and this in turn will no doubt tip some religious radical over the edge. I've never been for mass immigration, making a country only about benefiting elites through cheap labour. It does have an impact on stability of a country and can cause friction within communities. Religion can complicate and result in insular communities that hold age old beliefs detached from that of the country. Possibly Brexit will put the breaks on things if it actually ever happens. Even if it does though, it's important to remember that at that point the country is what it is. People still have to learn to get along in peace and to try to find commonality rather than differences no matter how hard or futile that may sometimes appear. We see here what the alternative to doing that is. Edited by dollardays (15 Mar 2019 5.57pm)
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Invalid user 2019

15 Mar 19 4.56pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

As for what is likely to have angered this guy....Your opinions on what is important to him are far more likely to anger him far more than mine.

If this guy listened to me, he certainly wouldn't be murdering anyone that's for sure.

Edited by Stirlingsays (15 Mar 2019 4.48pm)

Someone should've been looking at this NZ guy's public online activity earlier, thats's for sure.

Thanks for your comments anyway. For anyone interested, again, my actual comment and views are below.

Original Message

A sickening act.

I'm pleased I've criticised both religious extremism and racial resistance groups on here. It's all too easy online to plug into these fringe movements or to go down an us vs them road to radicalisation. This guy announced what he was going to do before posting his muddled and cliched 'white genecide' ethno state manifesto on a chan site, live streaming his heinous acts to anyone interested. It's important to see the dignity in all, not get warped ideas about who does and doesn't truly belong in their own country. The regular focus on genetic themed racial stuff that is suddenly ever present on here for instance is alienating, unhelpful and a rung on the ladder this leads nowhere pleasant.

Hrolf makes a good point about how violence begets violence. Previous attacks add weight to the likelihood of attacks like this, and this in turn will no doubt tip some religious radical over the edge. I've never been for mass immigration, making a country only about benefiting elites through cheap labour. It does have an impact on stability of a country and can cause friction within communities. Religion can complicate and result in insular communities that hold age old beliefs detached from that of the country. Possibly Brexit will put the breaks on things if it actually ever happens. Even if it does though, it's important to remember that at that point the country is what it is. People still have to learn to get along in peace and to try to find commonality rather than differences no matter how hard or futile that may sometimes appear. We see here what the alternative to doing that is.

Edited by dollardays (15 Mar 2019 5.57pm)

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Stirlingsays 15 Mar 19 4.59pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow That’s your truth; I can’t be bothered to recycle a debate that’s been had 100 times, but everyone believes their view to be the truth, hence why they believe it. It wasn't much of a debate because the statistics are pretty clear. Mostly the left/neo liberals just don't bother or cry 'racist'. Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow I’m not suggesting anything of the sort; just pointing out the hypocrisy of you saying the media are lying to put blame on the right, when you readily lay blame to the left. Let’s be clear; I’ve never suggested closing down anything, just highlighted an inconsistency. That's fair enough. I do blame the left and the neo liberals (note, it isn't only the left by any means) for the creation of this problem. Is that somehow incorrect, was our immigration policy not designed by them? So it's hardly hypocrisy if I'm correct. You can say I'm wrong, and I'd like to hear the argument....but a hypocrite? Na. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Mar 19 4.59pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

That’s your truth; I can’t be bothered to recycle a debate that’s been had 100 times, but everyone believes their view to be the truth, hence why they believe it.

It wasn't much of a debate because the statistics are pretty clear. Mostly the left/neo liberals just don't bother or cry 'racist'.

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

I’m not suggesting anything of the sort; just pointing out the hypocrisy of you saying the media are lying to put blame on the right, when you readily lay blame to the left.

Let’s be clear; I’ve never suggested closing down anything, just highlighted an inconsistency.

That's fair enough.

I do blame the left and the neo liberals (note, it isn't only the left by any means) for the creation of this problem.

Is that somehow incorrect, was our immigration policy not designed by them?

So it's hardly hypocrisy if I'm correct.

You can say I'm wrong, and I'd like to hear the argument....but a hypocrite? Na.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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W12 15 Mar 19 5.11pm
Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger I think we must not confuse good people who exhibit 'Christian' attitudes by helping other people and those promoting scientific ignorance, ridiculous fairy stories and the worship of invisible beings. These things are separate. I was really just talking about the difference between actually going out of your way to help people and virtue signalling. I think Christianity actually encourages or even expects people to get off their arse and do something for the community.
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W12 15 Mar 19 5.11pm

Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger

I think we must not confuse good people who exhibit 'Christian' attitudes by helping other people and those promoting scientific ignorance, ridiculous fairy stories and the worship of invisible beings.

These things are separate.

I was really just talking about the difference between actually going out of your way to help people and virtue signalling. I think Christianity actually encourages or even expects people to get off their arse and do something for the community.

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EverybodyDannsNow SE19 15 Mar 19 5.14pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays That's fair enough. I do blame the left and the neo liberals (note, it isn't only the left by any means) for the creation of this problem. Is that somehow incorrect, was our immigration policy not designed by them? So it's hardly hypocrisy if I'm correct. You can say I'm wrong, and I'd like to hear the argument....but a hypocrite? Na. No, it’s not incorrect, or at least not demonstrably so; I am of same opinion that the left/neo-liberals are a contributing factor, just as I believe the right are a contributing factor to this incident. Those two positions aren’t mutually exclusive, so just because you are correct on one, it doesn’t by definition make you correct on the other, hence why I consider it hypocrisy.
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EverybodyDannsNow

SE19 15 Mar 19 5.14pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

That's fair enough.

I do blame the left and the neo liberals (note, it isn't only the left by any means) for the creation of this problem.

Is that somehow incorrect, was our immigration policy not designed by them?

So it's hardly hypocrisy if I'm correct.

You can say I'm wrong, and I'd like to hear the argument....but a hypocrite? Na.

No, it’s not incorrect, or at least not demonstrably so; I am of same opinion that the left/neo-liberals are a contributing factor, just as I believe the right are a contributing factor to this incident.

Those two positions aren’t mutually exclusive, so just because you are correct on one, it doesn’t by definition make you correct on the other, hence why I consider it hypocrisy.

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Stirlingsays 15 Mar 19 5.21pm
Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow No, it’s not incorrect, or at least not demonstrably so; I am of same opinion that the left/neo-liberals are a contributing factor, just as I believe the right are a contributing factor to this incident. Those two positions aren’t mutually exclusive, so just because you are correct on one, it doesn’t by definition make you correct on the other, hence why I consider it hypocrisy. If you want to consider it hypocrisy, even though I don't think that stands up....cool. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Mar 19 5.21pm

Originally posted by EverybodyDannsNow

Those two positions aren’t mutually exclusive, so just because you are correct on one, it doesn’t by definition make you correct on the other, hence why I consider it hypocrisy.

If you want to consider it hypocrisy, even though I don't think that stands up....cool.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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laddo london 15 Mar 19 5.27pm
Originally posted by Midlands Eagle Do you have to try and make political capital out of everything? Bloke who did it wrote a 70 page right-wing manifesto. Denying this is political because you feel uncomfortable this bloke would have shared similar views to your own is the ultimate example of burying head in sand. laddo "People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist". David Brent.
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laddo

london 15 Mar 19 5.27pm

Originally posted by Midlands Eagle

Do you have to try and make political capital out of everything?

Bloke who did it wrote a 70 page right-wing manifesto. Denying this is political because you feel uncomfortable this bloke would have shared similar views to your own is the ultimate example of burying head in sand.

laddo

"People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist".
David Brent.

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Stirlingsays 15 Mar 19 5.29pm
Originally posted by laddo Bloke who did it wrote a 70 page right-wing manifesto. Denying this is political because you feel uncomfortable this bloke would have shared similar views to your own is the ultimate example of burying head in sand. So with the next Islamic attack are you going to head off to an Islamic website and tell them the same thing? 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Mar 19 5.29pm

Originally posted by laddo

So with the next Islamic attack are you going to head off to an Islamic website and tell them the same thing?

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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laddo london 15 Mar 19 6.36pm
Originally posted by Stirlingsays So with the next Islamic attack are you going to head off to an Islamic website and tell them the same thing? I don’t frequent Islamic websites. I find myself on this one because I’m a palace fan. In recent months it’s been obvious there are a minority of right-wing tommy Robinson loving morons who post under ‘news and politics’ who today posted ‘remorse’ for those innocent people, yet buy-in to that Luton rent-a-gob who uses language like ‘Islamic invasion’ when spouting his rubbish. All you who metaphorically suck him off inadvertently condone today’s hideous crime. But,..let’s be frank here. Behind your disingenuous sympathy you don’t really give a sht. Muslim blood to you is less valuable to English blood. It’s just today you’ve realised that wakstain of humanity in Christchurch has similar views to your own. Maybe you go on the same websites. Who knows. But right-wing extremism is as bad as Islamic extremism. All as bad as each other, including tommy Robinson and his supporters. laddo "People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist". David Brent.
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laddo

london 15 Mar 19 6.36pm

Originally posted by Stirlingsays

So with the next Islamic attack are you going to head off to an Islamic website and tell them the same thing?

I don’t frequent Islamic websites. I find myself on this one because I’m a palace fan. In recent months it’s been obvious there are a minority of right-wing tommy Robinson loving morons who post under ‘news and politics’ who today posted ‘remorse’ for those innocent people, yet buy-in to that Luton rent-a-gob who uses language like ‘Islamic invasion’ when spouting his rubbish. All you who metaphorically suck him off inadvertently condone today’s hideous crime.

But,..let’s be frank here. Behind your disingenuous sympathy you don’t really give a sh*t. Muslim blood to you is less valuable to English blood. It’s just today you’ve realised that wa*kstain of humanity in Christchurch has similar views to your own. Maybe you go on the same websites. Who knows. But right-wing extremism is as bad as Islamic extremism. All as bad as each other, including tommy Robinson and his supporters.

laddo

"People say, live fast, die young. I say live fast, die old. That's me, the non-conformist".
David Brent.

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PalazioVecchio south pole 15 Mar 19 6.42pm
As top enemies the shooter has identified : Angela Merkel Erdogan Sadiq Khan So we can guess all his other ideas. Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford
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PalazioVecchio

south pole 15 Mar 19 6.42pm

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As top enemies the shooter has identified :
Angela Merkel

Erdogan

Sadiq Khan

So we can guess all his other ideas.

Kayla did Anfield & Old Trafford

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Stirlingsays 15 Mar 19 6.45pm
Originally posted by laddo I don’t frequent Islamic websites. I find myself on this one because I’m a palace fan. In recent months it’s been obvious there are a minority of right-wing tommy Robinson loving morons who post under ‘news and politics’ who today posted ‘remorse’ for those innocent people, yet buy-in to that Luton rent-a-gob who uses language like ‘Islamic invasion’ when spouting his rubbish. All you who metaphorically suck him off inadvertently condone today’s hideous crime. But,..let’s be frank here. Behind your disingenuous sympathy you don’t really give a sht. Muslim blood to you is less valuable to English blood. It’s just today you’ve realised that wakstain of humanity in Christchurch has similar views to your own. Maybe you go on the same websites. Who knows. But right-wing extremism is as bad as Islamic extremism. All as bad as each other, including tommy Robinson and his supporters. My sympathy isn't disingenuous. What this guy did was inhuman and monstrous and that's how I feel about it. I presume you're English, but believe me I certainly have more respect for Muslims than I have for people like you......So you don't really know what you're talking about. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

15 Mar 19 6.45pm

Originally posted by laddo

My sympathy isn't disingenuous. What this guy did was inhuman and monstrous and that's how I feel about it.

I presume you're English, but believe me I certainly have more respect for Muslims than I have for people like you......So you don't really know what you're talking about.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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