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rikz Croydon 26 Sep 18 4.22pm | |
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It's boring comparing fighters from different generations, it's all hypothetical, the elite of any generation would hold themselves against anyone past or present. All ifs and buts but people usually look back through rose tinted glasses, so today's fighters are at a disadvantage. I will say in the heavyweights it's a bit different because of the size of today's, anyone who thinks a 6'2 14 stone man would not be at a massive disadvantage against someone over 6'6 and 18 stone is just crazy. It would be the equivalent of Khan fighting a super middleweight. Tyson, he is hugely underrated as a defensive fighter and in his prime was great but is that not another trait of a great fighter ? reaching the top and still having the drive and determination to be the best ? That's why mayweather is so underrated I don't think people realise the guy was at the pinnacle of the sport and still dominated for maybe 8 years after reaching it. Up at half 4 every morning, always in amazing shape, forget what you hear, the guy lived a clean life, he wouldn't have dominated otherwise. That's why for me Tyson will never be regarded as an all time great, he hit the top and just didn't have it in him to remain there. Tho within 20 years time no fighter will be fit to lace mayweathers gloves so he will finally get the accolade he deserves.
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youngpalacefan111 26 Sep 18 4.23pm | |
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Originally posted by Lyons550
All the best USA heavyweight talent are going to NBA, NFL, and the left overs have a choice of boxing or UFC, Wilder failed at basketball so chose boxing.
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Stirlingsays 26 Sep 18 5.05pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
Lewis'weakness was he was a bit chinny, if he couldn't recover from good shots from Rahman and McCall there's no way he'd get up from a Tyson bomb. That's why I think Holyfield in his prime beats Tyson in his prime, he could take a battering. Holyfield beat Tyson 2-0 anyway so it's not even up for debate I don't think Lewis was chinny but rather his chin was about average......Chinny suggests that a figher can't take a good shot. Those big power shots that knocked out Lewis would have knocked over most. Almost all boxers suffer tkos and get stopped. Was Tyson chinny because he was stopped four times compared to Lewis's two? No, Tyson wasn't chinny and either was Lewis.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Badger11 Beckenham 26 Sep 18 5.11pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't think Lewis was chinny but rather his chin was about average......Chinny suggests that a figher can't take a good shot. Those big power shots that knocked out Lewis would have knocked over most. Almost all boxers suffer tkos and get stopped. Was Tyson chinny because he was stopped four times compared to Lewis's two? No, Tyson wasn't chinny and either was Lewis. Talking of chinny I have a hunch that Tyson Fury is a bit that way, just a hunch. I saw an earlier fight of his and a cruiser weight stuck one on him and he wobbled. I think a bigger guy would have knocked him out. He recovered and beat the guy. I think if Wilder does hit him with a clean shot he goes down. Looking forward to that fight I think it will be a good one if you dislike Fury.
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Pussay Patrol 26 Sep 18 7.09pm | |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
I don't think Lewis was chinny but rather his chin was about average......Chinny suggests that a figher can't take a good shot. Those big power shots that knocked out Lewis would have knocked over most. Almost all boxers suffer tkos and get stopped. Was Tyson chinny because he was stopped four times compared to Lewis's two? No, Tyson wasn't chinny and either was Lewis. The point was Joshua took that bomb from Klitschko, went down and was wobbly for 2 or 3 rounds, but he turned it round. Lewis in a similar situation v McCall AND Rahman showed his vulnerability and did not recover. If Joshua landed a big bomb on Lewis, odds are he wouldn't survive
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 18 8.10pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
The point was Joshua took that bomb from Klitschko, went down and was wobbly for 2 or 3 rounds, but he turned it round. Lewis in a similar situation v McCall AND Rahman showed his vulnerability and did not recover. If Joshua landed a big bomb on Lewis, odds are he wouldn't survive AJ recovered from his knockdown because Klitschko didn't have the juice to finish him off.
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Hrolf The Ganger 26 Sep 18 8.28pm | |
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Originally posted by rikz
It's boring comparing fighters from different generations, it's all hypothetical, the elite of any generation would hold themselves against anyone past or present. All ifs and buts but people usually look back through rose tinted glasses, so today's fighters are at a disadvantage. I will say in the heavyweights it's a bit different because of the size of today's, anyone who thinks a 6'2 14 stone man would not be at a massive disadvantage against someone over 6'6 and 18 stone is just crazy. It would be the equivalent of Khan fighting a super middleweight. Tyson was 5' 10'' and 15 stone. Not a problem for him. That's why mayweather is so underrated I don't think people realise the guy was at the pinnacle of the sport and still dominated for maybe 8 years after reaching it. Up at half 4 every morning, always in amazing shape, forget what you hear, the guy lived a clean life, he wouldn't have dominated otherwise. That's why for me Tyson will never be regarded as an all time great, he hit the top and just didn't have it in him to remain there. Tho within 20 years time no fighter will be fit to lace mayweathers gloves so he will finally get the accolade he deserves. Tyson was 5'10'' and 15 stone. Wasn't a problem. He had more problems against bigger fighters but that was not his undoing. Certainly, an old fighter of 13/14 stone would struggle against a superheavyweight of today but if they were to fight in some parallel dimention,I'm sure that they would bulk up a bit first.
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Stirlingsays 26 Sep 18 9.29pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
The point was Joshua took that bomb from Klitschko, went down and was wobbly for 2 or 3 rounds, but he turned it round. Lewis in a similar situation v McCall AND Rahman showed his vulnerability and did not recover. If Joshua landed a big bomb on Lewis, odds are he wouldn't survive
Joshua wasn't much better and was allowed to. I think it's fair to say that fighters with average chins are the majority of fighters. If they get tagged with big bombs they are likely to go down.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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Pussay Patrol 26 Sep 18 10.12pm | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
AJ recovered from his knockdown because Klitschko didn't have the juice to finish him off. No you just have a nostalgic view of heavyweight boxing from it's 80's heyday and cannot appreciate the qualities of current fighters
Paua oouaarancì Irà chiyeah Ishé galé ma ba oo ah |
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rikz Croydon 27 Sep 18 12.00am | |
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Originally posted by Hrolf The Ganger
Tyson was 5'10'' and 15 stone. Wasn't a problem. He had more problems against bigger fighters but that was not his undoing. Certainly, an old fighter of 13/14 stone would struggle against a superheavyweight of today but if they were to fight in some parallel dimention,I'm sure that they would bulk up a bit first. Like I said Tyson was massively underrated as a defensive fighter probably only Pernell Whitaker had better head movement than him from fighters I can think of. Exactly you've used primo carnera as an example. Nothing more than a freak show and one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time, alongside valuev both are absolutely terrible and became heavyweight champion. That shows how much of an advantage height and weight are. If either were average size for heavyweight at the time neither would have got anywhere near winning a title. Massive difference when you have someone like Joshua or fury who both know how to actually box and both technically good enough to have successful amateur careers. Fury would actually toy with them they wouldn't get close. Joshua is a bit stiff and has a pretty poor jab but that's because he can get away with it. If he was disciplined enough he would still be technically good enough to box on the back foot.
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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Sep 18 12.54pm | |
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Originally posted by Pussay Patrol
No you just have a nostalgic view of heavyweight boxing from it's 80's heyday and cannot appreciate the qualities of current fighters Not at all. I just know the difference between natural ability and entirely taught ability. Too many modern heavyweights are all bulk and no talent. Who would win out of AJ and Bruno I wonder? The answer is probably, whoever landed the first heavy punch.
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Hrolf The Ganger 27 Sep 18 1.11pm | |
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Originally posted by rikz
Like I said Tyson was massively underrated as a defensive fighter probably only Pernell Whitaker had better head movement than him from fighters I can think of. Exactly you've used primo carnera as an example. Nothing more than a freak show and one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time, alongside valuev both are absolutely terrible and became heavyweight champion. That shows how much of an advantage height and weight are. If either were average size for heavyweight at the time neither would have got anywhere near winning a title. Massive difference when you have someone like Joshua or fury who both know how to actually box and both technically good enough to have successful amateur careers. Fury would actually toy with them they wouldn't get close. Joshua is a bit stiff and has a pretty poor jab but that's because he can get away with it. If he was disciplined enough he would still be technically good enough to box on the back foot.
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